Tankless Hotwater heater

[Flyr]

When our home was being remodeled we rented a home that had a tankless gas water heater.

It was never as warm as it should have been.

The other thing is we found out that it did not have the proper vent, the vent was proprietary and cost over $1500, pricey.

The LL who was a pretty decent guy went ahead and put in a tank water heater.

I would not have one for the whole house, maybe one under the sink for a sink that was a long ways from the tank.

[foolwelding]

heat pump water htr

What is life of unit/cost to replace,free standing water htr cheeper and can due yourself or call your heating company to replace outside combo unit when all you need is A new water htr,also does the cabin have soft city or rain water to be able to let your unit last longer or due you plan on installing a water softner to help,it seems that the newer water htrs dont last as long as the older units.best of luck.

[TonyMo]

Take a look, most speak with a Chinese accent...no UL listings... if the place burns down...

Well, perhaps I should restate that this is not some shack. My cabin is a 1400sq ft log cabin that I built myself where my wife, kids and friends will be spending an ever increasing amount of time in. Installing a dangerous safety hazard just to save money isn't very smart either.

[T>D>C]

Hpwh

This looks like a no brainer for me since, 1) I have an all electric house and 2) I need to replace my 17 year old water heater.

aceee.org/Consumerguide/waterheating.htm

[T>D>C]

H2O heater in attic

I never thought it was such a good idea to put a standard water heater in the attic but with the heat pump model, it becomes much more efficient. They need 40+F temperatures to work properly and the hotter the better I guess. Also, the heat pump water heater works just like the heat pump AC units, putting out cool air while removing the heat from the warm air, which should help keep the cooling bill down a little. In the attic also frees up space for the carbon units as we will now have more storage space available in the living area.

Also, natural gas is not an option for me. Propane is an option but it is expensive to setup (I am all electric) and not as efficient to use. Additionally, it would cost an arm and a leg to run a larger power line to a tank-less electrical unit. So I am back to the ubber efficient electrical 50 gallon tank heaters like the marathon (super insulated) or the heat pump style.

http://www.rheem.com/Products/tank_water_heaters/hpwh/hpwhhomeowner/

http://www.geappliances.com/heat-pump-hot-water-heater/

[garfish]

.....I will install the new unit in the attic.

I read this and I knew you were in East Texas. What is it with installing the water heater in the attic around there? Seems the worst possible place for a large amount of water. My sister house in Houston has a H2O heater in the attic. Other than getting blazing hot in the summer and maybe saving a couple btu's it seems weird to me. Any insight? Must be code-permitted/encouraged.

[garfish]

Check out this publicly-available report from Consumer Reports:

consumerreports.org/cro/a...heaters-ov.htm

Here is the gist:

"So is it time to switch?

"Probably not. Gas tankless water heaters, which use high-powered burners to quickly heat water as it runs through a heat exchanger, were 22 percent more energy efficient on average than the gas-fired storage-tank models in our tests. That translates into a savings of around $70 to $80 per year, based on 2008 national energy costs. But because they cost much more than storage water heaters, it can take up to 22 years to break even—longer than the 20-year life of many models. Moreover, our online poll of 1,200 readers revealed wide variations in installation costs, energy savings, and satisfaction....."

This changed my mind.

[T>D>C]

Heat Pump Water Heater

I have yet to replace my water heater, but, luckily for me, I have once again procrastinated long enough for technology to do me a favor. Heat pump water heaters appear to be hitting the market and make a lot more sense to me. I narrowed my search down to the GE and Rheem. Right now, the nod is going to Rheem. They are not quite as efficient as the GE but are better supported in my area. I currently have a water closet with a 50 gallon water heater and I will install the new unit in the attic. It will be a couple of months before I buy one (will install a new central A/C system Monday - $$$!).

Any experience with the heat pump water heaters?

[drizler]

For A Camp, Isn't That A Bit Much ?????

I am considering a tankless water heater for my cabin in the woods. It is off grid with a generator, propane tank, well water with an inside pressure tank. I understand that some of these tankless heaters do not require electricity to light a burner but I haven't done enough research yet; they either use a standing pilot light or water pressure sparks the burner.

I look forward to reading more of your posts on this.

Seems to me like a great way to spend a dollar to save a dime. Sorry, call me crazy but for a camp isn't it just better to do the time honored thing and get a small propane tank unit and turn it on when you need it. There isn't anything simpler than a propane tank unit and you can get one almost anywhere. Easy to operate part time too and built to last with that extra thick tank that propane types use. Of course you can use a tankless type for camp use. I saw one that seems to make sense for uses like that. It is made by a company called "Mary or Marey" the exact spelling I forget. It is a company in Puerto Rico where they seem to mainly sell and use them. You can get them on the net and Ebay if memory serves though I don't think they are UL rated. Something like $250 last year. Take a look, most speak with a Chinese accent and the Marey was the best I saw quality wise and from user ratings. You will find a couple others also but no UL listings either so hide it quick if the place burns down or your insurance co. will do what they do best. Nothing

[TonyMo]

I am considering a tankless water heater for my cabin in the woods. It is off grid with a generator, propane tank, well water with an inside pressure tank. I understand that some of these tankless heaters do not require electricity to light a burner but I haven't done enough research yet; they either use a standing pilot light or water pressure sparks the burner.

I look forward to reading more of your posts on this.

[SavageSunJeep]

I was told that Ca has passed a reg that all new installs have to be tankless units.

There are most likely more tankless units in this world than the tank type...

[snoeproe]

I love my gas fired Rennai tank less water heater. Endless supply of hot water and not constantly wasting energy to keep a 35 gallon tank of water hot. Tank less waster heaters are gaining in popularity very quickly in Canada.
I'll never go back to a 230v electric tank type water heater again.

[SavageSunJeep]

Some people love em but for he most part they are just too complicated and expensive to ever pay for themselves in reasonable fashion. Some plumber figured it up on line once and it took around 17 years to recoup the cost ....

While I am sure your post is well meant, the fact is its off the mark by a considerable margin.

Tankless units have been around for over 50 years; most of the world uses them; the exceptions are US, Canada and Australia. Yet, these countries have initiated regulations that is opening up the market to these very effective and efficient devices.

The following is just the last few paragraphs of my install.

"Adding in the copper piping and various pieces "T's", elbows etc, whole house water filter and water softener it was a bit less than $1600. But I used a lot of copper in moving and adding a whole house filter, water softening unit, water tap for the fridge and the unit itself

Worth-it-factor/performance:

We can run the washing machine, dishwasher, take a shower and my wife can take her "tub", do it all at the same time and never run out of hot water. The unit set to provide water at 130 F.


month 6: 13 therms $21.45 (September)

month 5: 13 therms $21.00

month 4: 13 therms $21.26

month 3: 14 therms $28.03 First full month, lowest bill in 4+ years

month 2: 22 therms $46.41 with tankless unit, partial mo

month 1: 59 therms $106.70 without tankless unit


Bottom line: Albeit some of the months above reflect summer usage the fact is my tankless system is costing less than $25 a month. I only have gas going to the tankless unit and the house heat."

I have 2 pages of install pic/writeup on this here: http://www.savagesun4x4.com/enter/of...stall_p_2.html

It does appear that I neglected to complete the thread I started on here and I apologize for that.

[drizler]

I have read and read about those things

Some people love em but for he most part they are just too complicated and expensive to ever pay for themselves in reasonable fashion. Some plumber figured it up on line once and it took around 17 years to recoup the cost so it would be a lucky guy who had it long enough to break even. Hard water of any sort is a major concern and their chief weakness. Many of the new gas models are crap too today and that includes the tank ones. Those same plumbers ranted on and on about how the fool government regulations :mad made them put a screen on the intake area which plugs and burns out the ignition unit. Take a good look and search hard no matter what you buy for water heating today. Personally I think it's better just to locate what you have in a heated area of the house, keep it as small as possible and insulate it as much as possible. Having a tank sitting on a concrete floor in a 45 degree basement all winter can't be efficient.

[SavageSunJeep]

I am on day 2 of installing the tankless unit. Yesterday was moving the water softner, installing a whole house water filter and getting the old water heater out. Got delayed several hours as I had problems getting the old water heater to drain (full of calcium) so we didn't really get started until after noon and we knocked off at 4:30 for my buddy to pick up his kids at day care.

More to follow