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  • #16
    Also, is it true these devices need to be used in conjunction with a water softener or else the unit is susceptible to needing repairs?
    MM 21
    Dynasty 2 DX
    ptrel Satellite

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Gaze View Post
      Looking forward to your writeup. I've been interested in this on the back burner in my mind for some time.

      I'd use nat gas here. My only issue I think is the exhaust needs to be enlarged, according to a guy who clued me in regarding his own tankless system. Apparently the duct needs to be larger diameter, which for me would mean routing a completely new duct from the garage up through the top floor, then through the roof. That's about the point where I started to procrastinate on the whole idea.

      I imagine permits are also involved? or just go for it?
      Yes you do need larger venting. The easy route is to use a outside wall mounted unit and vent to the outside rather than going up.

      I guess you should get a permit but since I opted NOT to pay a plumber $800 per hour to do the install I don't need a permit...
      Don
      Scottsdale, AZ
      www.SavageSun4x4.com

      MillerMatic 211 AS
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      • #18
        Originally posted by SavageSunJeep View Post
        I don't need a permit...
        The plumber probably wouldn't have gotten one either but they are required. $38.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by SavageSunJeep View Post
          ...NO line is to be moved further than 36 in or less. ...
          Huh? I'm a little confused. So, they will all be moved more than 36 inches?

          Dave
          Still building my new old truck - see the progress!
          http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/65...-coe-idea.html
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          • #20
            Originally posted by Gaze View Post
            Also, is it true these devices need to be used in conjunction with a water softener or else the unit is susceptible to needing repairs?
            I can't say for sure, cuz I don't know, but my guess is they would have the same susceptibilities a tank would have with calcium deposits and such clogging things up.

            Dave
            Still building my new old truck - see the progress!
            http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/65...-coe-idea.html
            http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtal...ad.php?t=27017

            Square Wave TIG 200 - Woot!
            MM180
            SP125+

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            • #21
              Originally posted by whateg0 View Post
              Huh? I'm a little confused. So, they will all be moved more than 36 inches?

              Dave
              Dave, no (gas, water inlet/outlet will be further than 36 inches from the old unity lines. In other words all the connections can be made with flexible piping and be in code compliance.

              Point being, some Plumber wanted to charge $800 per hour to remove the old water heater and nail the tankless unit to the wall, punch a vent hole and hook up and plug in. 3 plumbers said it was about a 3-4 hour job.
              Don
              Scottsdale, AZ
              www.SavageSun4x4.com

              MillerMatic 211 AS
              Hypertherm PowerMax30
              Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
              Milwaukee Bandsaw/stand
              8 Angle Grinders
              DeWalt Chop Saw
              Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
              12 Ton Shop Press
              Optrel Satellite Helmet
              Miller Elite Helmetsigpic

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              • #22
                Originally posted by SavageSunJeep View Post
                ...some Plumber wanted to charge $800 per hour to remove the old water heater and nail the tankless unit to the wall, punch a vent hole and hook up and plug in. 3 plumbers said it was about a 3-4 hour job.
                hah...I was watching HGTV or TLC once where the homeowner was doing repairs on a house for a profit flip and the plumber or some other KTR quoted the owner something crazy like that and the response (yes, on TV) was "get the BLEEEEP out of my house!"

                Whenever I hear whacky figures that episode pops into mind.
                MM 21
                Dynasty 2 DX
                ptrel Satellite

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                • #23
                  I have had a Bosch for about the last 10 years. It is amazing. I have nothing but great things to saw about it. It is gas however, but I am sure they make an electric model as well.

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                  • #24
                    I am on day 2 of installing the tankless unit. Yesterday was moving the water softner, installing a whole house water filter and getting the old water heater out. Got delayed several hours as I had problems getting the old water heater to drain (full of calcium) so we didn't really get started until after noon and we knocked off at 4:30 for my buddy to pick up his kids at day care.

                    More to follow
                    Don
                    Scottsdale, AZ
                    www.SavageSun4x4.com

                    MillerMatic 211 AS
                    Hypertherm PowerMax30
                    Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
                    Milwaukee Bandsaw/stand
                    8 Angle Grinders
                    DeWalt Chop Saw
                    Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
                    12 Ton Shop Press
                    Optrel Satellite Helmet
                    Miller Elite Helmetsigpic

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                    • #25
                      I have read and read about those things

                      Some people love em but for he most part they are just too complicated and expensive to ever pay for themselves in reasonable fashion. Some plumber figured it up on line once and it took around 17 years to recoup the cost so it would be a lucky guy who had it long enough to break even. Hard water of any sort is a major concern and their chief weakness. Many of the new gas models are crap too today and that includes the tank ones. Those same plumbers ranted on and on about how the fool government regulations :mad made them put a screen on the intake area which plugs and burns out the ignition unit. Take a good look and search hard no matter what you buy for water heating today. Personally I think it's better just to locate what you have in a heated area of the house, keep it as small as possible and insulate it as much as possible. Having a tank sitting on a concrete floor in a 45 degree basement all winter can't be efficient.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by drizler View Post
                        Some people love em but for he most part they are just too complicated and expensive to ever pay for themselves in reasonable fashion. Some plumber figured it up on line once and it took around 17 years to recoup the cost ....
                        While I am sure your post is well meant, the fact is its off the mark by a considerable margin.

                        Tankless units have been around for over 50 years; most of the world uses them; the exceptions are US, Canada and Australia. Yet, these countries have initiated regulations that is opening up the market to these very effective and efficient devices.

                        The following is just the last few paragraphs of my install.

                        "Adding in the copper piping and various pieces "T's", elbows etc, whole house water filter and water softener it was a bit less than $1600. But I used a lot of copper in moving and adding a whole house filter, water softening unit, water tap for the fridge and the unit itself

                        Worth-it-factor/performance:

                        We can run the washing machine, dishwasher, take a shower and my wife can take her "tub", do it all at the same time and never run out of hot water. The unit set to provide water at 130 F.


                        month 6: 13 therms $21.45 (September)

                        month 5: 13 therms $21.00

                        month 4: 13 therms $21.26

                        month 3: 14 therms $28.03 First full month, lowest bill in 4+ years

                        month 2: 22 therms $46.41 with tankless unit, partial mo

                        month 1: 59 therms $106.70 without tankless unit


                        Bottom line: Albeit some of the months above reflect summer usage the fact is my tankless system is costing less than $25 a month. I only have gas going to the tankless unit and the house heat."


                        I have 2 pages of install pic/writeup on this here: http://www.savagesun4x4.com/enter/of...stall_p_2.html

                        It does appear that I neglected to complete the thread I started on here and I apologize for that.
                        Don
                        Scottsdale, AZ
                        www.SavageSun4x4.com

                        MillerMatic 211 AS
                        Hypertherm PowerMax30
                        Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
                        Milwaukee Bandsaw/stand
                        8 Angle Grinders
                        DeWalt Chop Saw
                        Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
                        12 Ton Shop Press
                        Optrel Satellite Helmet
                        Miller Elite Helmetsigpic

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I love my gas fired Rennai tank less water heater. Endless supply of hot water and not constantly wasting energy to keep a 35 gallon tank of water hot. Tank less waster heaters are gaining in popularity very quickly in Canada.
                          I'll never go back to a 230v electric tank type water heater again.
                          Lincoln Idealarc 250
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                          Thermal Dynamics Cusmaster 52
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                          • #28
                            I was told that Ca has passed a reg that all new installs have to be tankless units.

                            There are most likely more tankless units in this world than the tank type...
                            Don
                            Scottsdale, AZ
                            www.SavageSun4x4.com

                            MillerMatic 211 AS
                            Hypertherm PowerMax30
                            Bernard 300 Amp Q Gun
                            Milwaukee Bandsaw/stand
                            8 Angle Grinders
                            DeWalt Chop Saw
                            Craftsman Twin-Blade Saw
                            12 Ton Shop Press
                            Optrel Satellite Helmet
                            Miller Elite Helmetsigpic

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I am considering a tankless water heater for my cabin in the woods. It is off grid with a generator, propane tank, well water with an inside pressure tank. I understand that some of these tankless heaters do not require electricity to light a burner but I haven't done enough research yet; they either use a standing pilot light or water pressure sparks the burner.

                              I look forward to reading more of your posts on this.

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                              • #30
                                For A Camp, Isn't That A Bit Much ?????

                                Originally posted by TonyMo View Post
                                I am considering a tankless water heater for my cabin in the woods. It is off grid with a generator, propane tank, well water with an inside pressure tank. I understand that some of these tankless heaters do not require electricity to light a burner but I haven't done enough research yet; they either use a standing pilot light or water pressure sparks the burner.

                                I look forward to reading more of your posts on this.


                                Seems to me like a great way to spend a dollar to save a dime. Sorry, call me crazy but for a camp isn't it just better to do the time honored thing and get a small propane tank unit and turn it on when you need it. There isn't anything simpler than a propane tank unit and you can get one almost anywhere. Easy to operate part time too and built to last with that extra thick tank that propane types use. Of course you can use a tankless type for camp use. I saw one that seems to make sense for uses like that. It is made by a company called "Mary or Marey" the exact spelling I forget. It is a company in Puerto Rico where they seem to mainly sell and use them. You can get them on the net and Ebay if memory serves though I don't think they are UL rated. Something like $250 last year. Take a look, most speak with a Chinese accent and the Marey was the best I saw quality wise and from user ratings. You will find a couple others also but no UL listings either so hide it quick if the place burns down or your insurance co. will do what they do best. Nothing

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