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  • Wagon Frame

    Hey guys,

    I'm going to be building a wagon, and i'm just wondering what the best type of stick to use is. I'm going to be using 1.5"x.75"x1/8" rectangular tubing for the frame.

    I was thinking 7014 or 7018.

    I'm using the lincoln arc welder AC only.

    thanks,
    Steve

  • #2
    Steve,
    For 1/8" wall tubing I would use E6011 1/8".
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Originally posted by urch55 View Post
      Steve,
      For 1/8" wall tubing I would use E6011 1/8".
      I've heard that you're not supposed to use 70** with an AC welder (only 60**), only DC... Is this true?

      Why do you say 6011? I've always heard that that was a very weak stick used mostly for dirty metals... please explain why you say that as I would like to learn.

      thanks,

      Steve

      Comment


      • #4
        Can I jump in here? 6011 is a great all purpose rod. Weak???? I never heard that. 6011 is a very versatile rod. What is the strength of the metal you are welding? I'm going to say that it's less than 60,000 so basically that means that 6011 is stronger than the base metal. 7018 AC is a good choice if you can run it. I would not recommend it for your first rod, but it's strong and leaves a very nice bead.

        My suggestion is to get some different rods and try them. I can tell you that 7014 is an easy rod to run, but it lacks penetration and I would not use it for structural purposes. (Yeah, I know some guys love it, but I don't use it except for ornamental purposes)

        If you have an AC welder, you can pretty much weld what you need with 6011 and 7018. Be sure to get the 7018 AC rods otherwise you will have a heck of a time running them. Also, you need to run the 7018's about 25 or more amps than the same size 6011's. Basically, that means that you run them about like you would the next size up if you are running 6011. For example, I run 1/8 6011 around 100 amps (DC) and 1/8 7018 about 140 amps. This will vary with different machines but you pretty much run 7018's a size smaller on the same thickness material. I hope this makes sense to you.
        Jim

        Miller MM 210
        Miller Dialarc 250P
        Airco 225 engine driven
        Victor O/A
        Lots of other tools and always wanting more

        Comment


        • #5
          Pretty much any mild steel can be welded with 6010 or 6011 as the strength of the weld material exceeds the strength of the base metal. With an AC only machine, you need to use 6011 or 7018AC. With 60 cycle AC, the voltage goes to 0 120 times a second and these rods have additives in the flux that help restart the arc during the zero crossings.
          Blacksmith
          Stickmate LX AC/DC
          Big cheap (Chinese) Anvil
          Hand cranked coal forge
          Freon bottle propane forge
          HH 210 and bottle of C25

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Steve G View Post
            I've heard that you're not supposed to use 70** with an AC welder (only 60**), only DC... Is this true?

            Why do you say 6011? I've always heard that that was a very weak stick used mostly for dirty metals... please explain why you say that as I would like to learn.

            thanks,

            Steve
            E7018 AC can be used in your AC welder, So the answer to your question is false..

            E6011 is very forgiving but, don't confuse forgiveness as weakness. E6011 is 60,000 psi strength. Your tubing is not. Unless you have some special alloy tubing..
            Buy some E6011 and E7018AC rods. Try them on some scrap pieces of tubing. You will quickly see the difference between the two. And then let us know which one you liked best for this project.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by urch55 View Post
              E7018 AC can be used in your AC welder, So the answer to your question is false..

              E6011 is very forgiving but, don't confuse forgiveness as weakness. E6011 is 60,000 psi strength. Your tubing is not. Unless you have some special alloy tubing..
              Buy some E6011 and E7018AC rods. Try them on some scrap pieces of tubing. You will quickly see the difference between the two. And then let us know which one you liked best for this project.
              Thanks for the replies, I just read them for the first time, I ended up using E6011 & E6013. But that was for the end of the day, I did most of the frame on a MIG... It's the first time I've ever used a MIG, what a difference. It's much easier than stick.

              Pics to come....

              Comment


              • #8
                Since I used the MIG welder in my friends shop on Saturday, I haven't been able to get over the fact of how easy and smooth it was compared to the stick.
                So I bought a HH187 from tractor supply today for $550 as this seamed to be the best deal I could find, it's being shipped out to me.

                I have a few questions however about the MIG welder and material used therein.
                • What type of "wire" to use - I'm welding 1/8-1/4" metal
                • What type of gas to use - I think C25??? 75% Argon 25% Oxygen???
                • What size are the gas tanks sized by, I think CU FT????
                • About how much should the "C25" cost
                • What size rolls of wire does the HH187 take?


                Thanks,

                Steve

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Steve G View Post

                  I have a few questions however about the MIG welder and material used therein.
                  • What type of "wire" to use - I'm welding 1/8-1/4" metal
                  • What type of gas to use - I think C25??? 75% Argon 25% Oxygen???
                  • What size are the gas tanks sized by, I think CU FT????
                  • About how much should the "C25" cost
                  • What size rolls of wire does the HH187 take?


                  Thanks,

                  Steve
                  0.30" ER70S-6 Solid Wire.
                  C25 Shielding Gas...75% Argon 25%C02.
                  Most popular sizes are 40, 80 and 125 Cubic Foot Bottles.
                  You will have to call for current prices on refills. For your area.
                  HH187 will hold 4"-8" spools. Or 1 Lb. to 10Lbs. spools.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by urch55 View Post
                    0.30" ER70S-6 Solid Wire.
                    C25 Shielding Gas...75% Argon 25%C02.
                    Most popular sizes are 40, 80 and 125 Cubic Foot Bottles.
                    You will have to call for current prices on refills. For your area.
                    HH187 will hold 4"-8" spools. Or 1 Lb. to 10Lbs. spools.
                    Thanks!

                    About how many lb's of wire will 40 cu ft bottle handle?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Steve G View Post
                      Thanks!

                      About how many lb's of wire will 40 cu ft bottle handle?
                      There is realy no way to answer that. To many unknown variables.
                      If your gas regulator is set at 20CFH.. you have two hours of straight weld time for a 40Cu Ft bottle. What will be your wire feed setting be??? How many inches of wire is there in a pound of 0.30 wire???Plus if you adjust the regulator to 15 or 18 CFH that changes every thing.. Sorry I can't help you there....

                      I do have a formula to calculate filler metal consumption for SMAW..
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Steve,
                        I use a 125 CF bottle with a 45 Lb spool of 0.35 wire and I have never kelp a record of how many bottles it takes to rum though a spool of wire.
                        I guess I will have to start one.. If I had to guess I would say three to four bottles. But keep in mind the bottle was not full when the spool was replaced.

                        Maybe some one on the forums know how many inches of wire is in a pound of wire...
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Wire weight calculator: http://www.metals-unltd.com/weights.htm
                          --- RJL ----------------------------------------------

                          Ordinarily I'm insane, but I have lucid moments when I'm merely stupid.
                          -------------------------

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                          • #14
                            Thanks for all the replies, the largest they would sell was 80 cu ft so that's what I got. $250 out the door.

                            Its a perfect size as I already had to throw it in the truck to go to a different location to weld.

                            Again, the mig is so much easier to weld with than then the arc.

                            I have decided to make my project out of aluminum though, so any suggestions on what type of stock, (I'm using 1.5x1.5 11ga square tubing), wire or techniques to use would be great. I know I need 100% argon and a spool gun... What spool gun should I get? I saw a few different ones on the website.

                            Are there different processes to welding aluminum than steel?

                            Thanks!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It seems like the hobart 3035-20 will work (300143). Can anyone beat cyber welds price of $461?

                              What type of wire should I use with 11 ga al?

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