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  • mig welding hardened steel

    I'm trying to make a oil dipper for my B & S 18 HP flathead engine , they tell me it must be hardened steel because of the rpm of the engine (2400rpm) , found a hoe blade , due to the shape of it it will have to be cut and welded to get the right shape . can i MIG 1/8 hardened steel and will MIG destroy the heat treatment of the carbon steel , and no i can't afford the cost of a new one , besides if you buy one you learn nothing !!! welder in question is my trusty HH135 with co2 .

    THANKS IN ADVANCE
    Last edited by silver hair dee; 09-17-2010, 04:57 PM.
    Silver Hair Deere
    Hobart Handler 135

  • #2
    I personally would not weld it. If that was to shatter at that speed well?? do I need to say more. It could be welded but it won't hold up. Could you post a picture of it and post a ser. Number and Model number. of the engine.
    sigpic

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    • #3
      Something smells fishy. Can you post a picture? I have plenty of things around the shop that fly around a lot faster than that and they aren't hardened.
      --- RJL ----------------------------------------------

      Ordinarily I'm insane, but I have lucid moments when I'm merely stupid.
      -------------------------
      DialArc 250 (1974), Idealarc 250 (1971), SyncroWave 250 w/Coolmate 3, SP-175+, TA 161STL,
      Lincwelder AC180C (circa 1952), Victor & Smith's O/A, Dayton (Miller) spot welder, 1200 sq.ft. of garage filled with crap and a kid that can actually run the stuff +++

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      • #4
        engine number 422437 0750-01

        dipper part number 223053

        looks something like this



        sorry for crappy picture
        Silver Hair Deere
        Hobart Handler 135

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        • #5
          What is the bolt spacing on the connecting rod bolts. Center to center.??
          sigpic

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          • #6
            Originally posted by urch55 View Post
            What is the bolt spacing on the connecting rod bolts. Center to center.??
            i'll measure in the morning , i have a problem falling down even in the daylight and on even ground .
            Silver Hair Deere
            Hobart Handler 135

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            • #7
              If you can't afford $4.25 maybe the weld talk forums should pass the collection plate.
              I was thinking I would come across one, I have scrapped out many of them.
              http://www.upstateoutdoorpowerequipm...5/default.aspx
              Last edited by urch55; 09-17-2010, 11:35 PM.
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              • #8
                Ah, it's not hardened, it's tempered. You can actually make the piece from whatever you have laying around...

                ( I have to defend his idea, I do the same thing rather thay buy a part, I make it. Its more fun......)

                Anyway, you can temper it by reheating it to a dull red and quenching in oil and yes, the localozed weld heat will remove the temper.

                It's an oil slinger, splash lubrication.....
                So little time...So many machine tools.........
                www.flipmeisters.com

                Miller, Hobart & Lincoln TIG/MIG/-
                Hypertherm Plasma (Thanks Jim)
                Plasma-Cam DHC (coming shortly)
                Harris OA
                Too many motorcycles.............-
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by SidecarFlip View Post
                  Ah, it's not hardened, it's tempered. You can actually make the piece from whatever you have laying around...

                  ( I have to defend his idea, I do the same thing rather thay buy a part, I make it. Its more fun......)

                  Anyway, you can temper it by reheating it to a dull red and quenching in oil and yes, the localozed weld heat will remove the temper.

                  It's an oil slinger, splash lubrication.....
                  I've made one out of 1/16 mild steel , but have been afraid to use it as everyone has said it has to be hardened steel due to contacting 30 wt oil at ideal to up to 2400 rpm , all i have to heat is propane , is this ok .
                  Silver Hair Deere
                  Hobart Handler 135

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by urch55 View Post
                    If you can't afford $4.25 maybe the weld talk forums should pass the collection plate.
                    I was thinking I would come across one, I have scrapped out many of them.
                    http://www.upstateoutdoorpowerequipm...5/default.aspx
                    I live on a fixed income , with no raise this or next year , we're lucky to have $ 5.00 left at the end of the month , i have to fix everthing i can to save money , thank god for the information on the internet . instead of passing the hat from a lot of other poor members , who are just scrapping to get by , just send me a used one .
                    Silver Hair Deere
                    Hobart Handler 135

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SidecarFlip View Post
                      Ah, it's not hardened, it's tempered. You can actually make the piece from whatever you have laying around...
                      That is a play of words. "Tempered" just means it's been hardened to some degree.
                      So you say it's "tempered" then it's hardened.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Is there any possibility that the oil slinger is spring tempered because it needs some spring action to help fling the oil?
                        --- RJL ----------------------------------------------

                        Ordinarily I'm insane, but I have lucid moments when I'm merely stupid.
                        -------------------------
                        DialArc 250 (1974), Idealarc 250 (1971), SyncroWave 250 w/Coolmate 3, SP-175+, TA 161STL,
                        Lincwelder AC180C (circa 1952), Victor & Smith's O/A, Dayton (Miller) spot welder, 1200 sq.ft. of garage filled with crap and a kid that can actually run the stuff +++

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by usmcpop View Post
                          Is there any possibility that the oil slinger is spring tempered because it needs some spring action to help fling the oil?
                          No, because many I have seen is ribbed for strength plus some have a twist at the end to help the splash and as it's moving though it's stroke the flat side is not what cuts though the oil. Many are V or I shaped. Some newer ones are molded on the connecting rod cap in the shape of an ! . They are an aluminum alloy. Picture a keel slicing though the oil. Of course there are many variations I just described the most popular shapes.
                          You know I have torn down engines and the sling-er is sitting on the bottom of the oil pan.
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by urch55 View Post
                            That is a play of words. "Tempered" just means it's been hardened to some degree.
                            So you say it's "tempered" then it's hardened.
                            We could go on for literally pages on varoius methods and degrees of hardness and temper as well as controlled atmospheric heat treat but for his simple purpose, the simple answer is to make the part from a piece of steel of unknown metallurgy and heat it with a propane (I prefer a gas axe because you can apply a carbon rich flame to the material) torch, to dull red and quench it in motor oil. Motor oil isn't specific quenching oil but he's not building a rocket. It's an oil slinger.

                            I've been case hardening as well as tempering material for a long time right on the bench. It might not be Rockwell specific or deformation friendly, but it works. If I need something with a specific value, I send it out to the heat treater.
                            So little time...So many machine tools.........
                            www.flipmeisters.com

                            Miller, Hobart & Lincoln TIG/MIG/-
                            Hypertherm Plasma (Thanks Jim)
                            Plasma-Cam DHC (coming shortly)
                            Harris OA
                            Too many motorcycles.............-
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Keeping it simple: Tempering is process of heating hardened steel to lower temperature than used for hardening and quenching (quick cooling).
                              * Improves ductility and toughness
                              * Reduces cracking
                              * Improves machinability
                              * Increases impact resistance
                              * Improves malleability
                              * Decreases hardness

                              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering

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