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  • Auto Patch Problem Question

    Hello & Thanks in advance for any help offered. I really need some help,info from anyone with knowledge of automotive body repair. Short version of long story: I have a 1991 chevy blazer, with factory sheet metal. I took it in to a shop to be painted w/ very minor body repair. One specific repair was to an 3x5" rust area on the top of cab, in the center of the area the rust went completely thro, causing a line of holes. The repair was to "Cut out rust, Weld a patch". As far as I knew this is what was done. It was not. 5 yrs. pass, the patch begins to lift off. When the patch was removed it was discovered it had been bonded directly on top of the rust with adhesive( 3m duramix) the rust is still bonded to the underside of the patch. I know the area was not prepped properly for either welding or any bonding alternative. My questions are:* IF* the prep had actually been done, how long would either application, welding or bonding of a patch, reasonably be expected to last? What are the pros/cons of adhesive -vs-welding? Again thanks for any assistance.
    Last edited by kathy; 02-11-2009, 09:27 AM. Reason: add pics

  • #2
    Not enough info here to make an intelligent reply. Would need much more info like the type of metal prep that was used, primer...epoxy etc.
    I do car restoration and have twenty year old repairs still looking like new. The key here is if the repair is done properly...it should last longer than you or I.
    Sounds like you might of gotten what you paid for and might be lucky you managed to get 5 years out the repair.

    Good Luck!

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    • #3
      Hi & Thank -You. I don't know what if any prep was actually done. I attached a photo of the patch after removal. While I did not go to a Top of Line shop, I went for the "best" service w/ 2 stage paint and Xtra charges to have a few specific areas repaired (fill in holes from trim), the patched area was the only area with any rust at all, I paid a separate fee to have that rust area cut out and a patch welded on.This was not a 3 digit job. I don't feel lucky at all to have gotten 5yrs from this repair...the area beneath the patch is much worse now than it was prior to having it repaired. If you look at the patch, right thro the center you will see the 3M duramix..thats exactly where the line of rusted thro holes were on the cab when the truck was brought in.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kathy View Post
        ...........One specific repair was to an 3x5" rust area on the top of cab, in the center of the area the rust went completely thro, causing a line of holes. The repair was to "Cut out rust, Weld a patch". As far as I knew this is what was done. It was not.
        So, you have the patch, with the glue (obviously not welded) in your possession. What exactly are you asking here? If the work to be done was stated EXACTLY as you state "Cut out rust, Weld a patch", then they didn't do the service you were paying for. If it wasn't stated that way though, and simply stated 'repair rusted area' then you may be out of luck.

        I feel that you are looking for us to give you a smoking gun in a court case, but we can't do that over the internet. I've seen welded patches last 1 year, and 20 years...it all depends on what was done, how, by who, the conditions it's exposed to after the job is done, care after the fact, lots of factors.
        Last edited by greywynd; 02-07-2009, 04:10 PM. Reason: fixing html tag

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        • #5
          Well it looks like they didn't do what you paid or asked for. The question is what do you do now going forward?
          Have it cut out and done right. The rust either has to be reasonably cut back to where better the metal starts , or stabilized chemically or both. Not knowing where the repair is this will probably involve blending in the new finish or refinishing the entire panel.
          Done properly, modern structural adhesives are as good or better than welding in some cases.
          You also might want to post your question to http://www.autobody101.com/ for a more comprehensive reply.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by greywynd View Post
            So, you have the patch, with the glue (obviously not welded) in your possession. What exactly are you asking here? If the work to be done was stated EXACTLY as you state "Cut out rust, Weld a patch", then they didn't do the service you were paying for. If it wasn't stated that way though, and simply stated 'repair rusted area' then you may be out of luck.

            I feel that you are looking for us to give you a smoking gun in a court case, but we can't do that over the internet. I've seen welded patches last 1 year, and 20 years...it all depends on what was done, how, by who, the conditions it's exposed to after the job is done, care after the fact, lots of factors.
            I did not get what I paid for, I am going to file a suit, I want to educate myself on the technical aspects of this type of repair, I'll be going at it alone, this is why I seek the expertise opinions and knowledge of those in the field , I can only imagine what kind of excuses are going to be lobbed at me by the shop as they defend the nature of their repair, I need to have some knowledge in this type of repair...So I'm sorry if My reason for seeking info. in this forum has offended anyone ..but I value & appreciate the help.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by gocirino View Post
              Well it looks like they didn't do what you paid or asked for. The question is what do you do now going forward?
              Have it cut out and done right. The rust either has to be reasonably cut back to where better the metal starts , or stabilized chemically or both. Not knowing where the repair is this will probably involve blending in the new finish or refinishing the entire panel.
              Done properly, modern structural adhesives are as good or better than welding in some cases.
              You also might want to post your question to http://www.autobody101.com/ for a more comprehensive reply.
              I am looking into and hoping to find an alternative shop locally that can do this repair..Once bitten twice shy, I plan to be much more cautious this time around, I have the area covered with duct tape and the truck garaged to keep it out of the elements...So hopefully I will find someone soon, Thank-you for the link..I will check it out, Thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm surprised that they fixed it that way. They probably figured that the vehicle would be on to the next owner by the time it would become an issue.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Brianstick View Post
                  I'm surprised that they fixed it that way. They probably figured that the vehicle would be on to the next owner by the time it would become an issue.
                  So was I..I kinda think that as well..but I also wonder based on how complicated welding actually seems to be, if they just did not have someone capable of doing it at that location. I put a lot into making this truck nice, lift kit, rims,36's, etc. this truck and my sportster are My babies.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well, I'm sitting down here in rust-free South Texas, so forgive my ignorance...but if the vehicle is rusting through the top of the roof...is the rest of it even worth trying to pretty-up? All rust I've been involved with (grew up near buffalo) has been low on the car.

                    As to your suit, what is the exact wording on the shop ticket for the repair? Does it specify "cut out and weld in patch"...then you did not get what you thought you were paying for...if it said "patch" or "repair"...you probably got it. Adhesives are used in a great ,many repairs today, due in part to the difficulty in patching the newer body sheet metals. What type vehicle is this, year, make?

                    Was this a high quality ($5,000 or more) paint job (body work in addition to the paint job), or a "Chain Store" job ($200-$1,000) , like (in the states) Earl Scheib, Macco, etc.?? I have seen good and bad in each. For the better jobs, careful prep takes time and lots of detailed attention, and time costs money....then there is all the labor color sanding and buffing....

                    Just my 2 centavos worth.
                    Last edited by Hotfoot; 02-07-2009, 09:34 AM.
                    "Good Enough Never Is"

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                    • #11
                      The truck was surprisingly clean when My husband bought it..no rust to the areas that you normally expect,rockers,wells, panels were all clean..the prev. owner thought maybe the problem started with a rock or something that may have hit & chipped the paint on the top of the cab roof..who knows, the truck was not a rust bucket be any stretch.. The work order/invoice did specify "cut and weld", the reply to my complaint to the shop was "in the industry the use of adhesive is an acceptable alternative to welding" It was a chain, but as I said I went for what I thought was the best they had to offer, If they wanted to charge more to actually do what they stated would be done, I would have paid even more..I just wanted it done right. It is a 1991
                      Last edited by kathy; 02-07-2009, 09:50 AM. Reason: forgot to enter year

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                      • #12
                        Personally, I would chalk it up to experience. The cost and aggravation of a lawsuit far out way just getting it repaired. In my opinion, you would have better use of your time than spending years in litigation.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gocirino View Post
                          Personally, I would chalk it up to experience. The cost and aggravation of a lawsuit far out way just getting it repaired. In my opinion, you would have better use of your time than spending years in litigation.
                          that's not an option, I would have done just that, if it was done as it should have been and failed to remain attached for a legitimate and explainable reason, other than just because corners were cut,I don't expect years of litigation , I'm simply going to seek restitution for the costs of having the area correctly repaired, which I assume will be within the jurisdiction of small claims, I really shouldn't have to bear the burden for the costs to now have this repair done again, I do respect your opinion..and if I had money to burn, I'd prefer to avoid the process myself, times are tuff, I'm not in the position to do that right now & I can't just leave it sitting with duct tape on it. I have to have it repaired. I thank-you as well as everyone that has offered comments and assistance..I am learning quite a bit about welding, I'll say this, it is an art, not nearly as straightforward as I thought it to be.

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                          • #14
                            To be honest if the area is prepped correctly and a new panel is bonded then it will last as long if not longer than the original sheet metal.... bonding panels is very acceptable and is actually cheaper and requires less labor to due vs welding in a panel..... you just have to find a shop that can / will do it correctly.
                            http://www.lord.com/Home/ProductsSer...0/Default.aspx
                            Last edited by 84ZMike; 02-07-2009, 11:28 AM. Reason: added link
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 84ZMike View Post
                              To be honest if the area is prepped correctly and a new panel is bonded then it will last as long if not longer than the original sheet metal.... bonding panels is very acceptable and is actually cheaper and requires less labor to due vs welding in a panel..... you just have to find a shop that can / will do it correctly.
                              http://www.lord.com/Home/ProductsSer...0/Default.aspx
                              That's what I thought and wanted to get really good opinions & advice on, otherwise it's just " my opinion" which isn't worth squat. The shop claims "that they doubt the patch would have held any longer if it had been welded" I guess you could say the responses from them to me have added insult to injury, while , I don't know much about welding, bonding or auto body, I don't have stupid stamped on my forehead either.

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