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  • Trailer mod questions

    A buddy thought up some mods he'd like on his trailer when I get good at welding. The first was a set of forward ramps, that attach to the front of the trailer and lay into the truck bed. The idea is to unload a quadbike from the truckbed, into the trailer, then down the trailer ramp, without having to unhook the trailer. Which sounds a bit goofy, but believe it or not we accomplish the same thing with a seperate ramp.
    Haven't done too much design on this part but he also wants the tounge lengthened, which should happen first anyway.
    For that, the first thing I thought up was to cut the tounge and make a 'cuff' of square tube whose inside diameter is equal or slightly bigger then the outside diameter of the cut tube. The length of the new tube would equal how much he wants it lengthened (no more then 1' I imagine) plus 3-6 inches on either side for overlap. Then I'd put some angled cuts down the cuff's length so I could do a rosette weld.
    Then I thought of what you guys'd try and figured maybe just welding new tube in between is good enough? If you cut it at an engle you'd get more surface aread for the weld. Either way he wanted to put a bolt through it. Which was kind of an insult, like why bother with welding if your going to bolt it all together anyway?

    Anyhow, I know nothing about trailers so figured I'd ask here. The project is quite a while down the road. The welding will be done with gas (yup). The trailer is not big, just a little single axle. Thanks for any help!
    Last edited by jeffm; 02-06-2003, 09:12 AM.

  • #2
    Jeff, it sounds like you are on the right track here. The "cuff" you refer to sounds like a good idea, I don't know for a fact what a rosette weld is, but I don't think you would need to cut the "cuff" and weld the cuts. You could add a piece without it, but if there is any doubt about your welding, use the cuff. Cutting at an angle is a good idea, but not for the reason you suggested. First you want as little weld area as possible. But, cutting at an angle will keep you from cutting your stress lines all in the same place at a 90 degree angle. So all in all proceed just about as you planned.
    Respectfully,
    Mike Sherman
    Shermans Welding

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Mike Sherman
      I don't know for a fact what a rosette weld is, but I don't think you would need to cut the "cuff" and weld the cuts.
      I think I made a mistake; A book I'm reading shows pictures of several welds and the names, but is a bit misleading. A 'rosette' is simply a plug weld, I think. I was talking about something different, which will take all day to explain so I drew it real quick. See attached; the red spots are where you weld when joining a big pipe to a little pipe. The dot is a plug, the diagonal welds is what I though of doing for the cuff. Like, do that on both sides, or you could get artsy with it and have them cut inward, etc...

      The book I stole the idea/drawing from ('Weldor's Handbook') says you do the diagonal weld to increase weld bead length, but you say I should go for as "little weld area as possible". Don't get me wrong, I'd take your advice over a book but why a smaller area?
      I think the ramps for this will be awesome to design and build! ))
      Thanks for the help Mike!

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      • #4
        Rosette welds and birdsmouthing are 2 very common terms in aircraft tube and fabric construction. thin wall 4130 aircraft structural tubing is where I know it from.

        Go to EAA.org, the experimental aircraft assoc for more info, or any of the FAA publications on welding or aircraft maint.

        but Piper Cubs and trailer hitches are 2 different animals.

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        • #5
          Thanks for the education on the non-technical terms openboater. Jeff, the reason I said smaller welds is based on the theory that the best weld is no weld. As funny as that sounds if you can design a project to incorporate less welds, you will be better off. That's really all I meant by it. Looking at your drawing I would say go ahead and do it and have fun.
          Respectfully,
          Mike Sherman
          Shermans Welding

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          • #6
            You said the welding will be 'done with gas'...do you mean oxy / Acetylene, or MIG using gas shielding?

            Mike, I'm surprised...rosette got by you?

            Rosettes are common in aircraft and shipbuilding...AWS calls them plug welds, not quite as suave as rosette. Some designers I have seen make the plug/rosette look like a flower, too.

            On heavy weldments 2" material or better I have seen the bolts used with welding. as a safety feature to protect from the effects of vibration. Never in a single axle trailer, tho.

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            • #7
              gas

              Rocky, he is talking about Oxy-Acetylene. Jeff, which Weldor's Handbook are you referring to?

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              • #8
                You guys will have to forgive my ignorance on some of these "left coast" terms. I have turned my library inside out to find "rosettes" and "birdsmouthing", no luck. I did find weldor though, it says it is a non standard term for welder. Just funnin' ya' Rocky. You have to remember I am still a young man and I have not seen or heard it all by any means. Have fun guys and thanks for setting me straight.
                Respectfully,
                Mike Sherman
                Shermans Welding

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                • #9
                  Mike,

                  Look in the "Welder's Handbook", by Richard Finch. The reference to Rosette is on page 61. There is reference to Fishmouth joints, but I haven't found Birdsmouth yet . That book is a little dated -'97. I picked mine up at Home Depot. Being an "old newby", after browsing through the Miller books, I decided that the Miller books were somewhat better.

                  Allen T.

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                  • #10
                    birdsmouth

                    I suspect birdsmouth and fishmouth are one and the same.

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