overkill

[ryanevans]

I have designed a welder cart i want to build but compared to your guys' that I've seen, mine is from Mad Max. It is 1" square tubing with a 1/8" plate on top and diamond plate sides riding on 10" pnuematic tires. I designed it to hold an arc and wire welder with room to spare.

Let me know what you think....

[Bob]

Ryan,

While maybe overkill for a hobbist, your design looks of the caliber of some of Rocky D's creations for professional use.
Looks like a "following wheel" design like the luggage carts at the air ports. Not quite sure how that works, but it should keep make the cart easier to wheel around corners.
Some wise person suggested "Don't paint it until you have used it a while" ... you will probably want to tack on extras. For yours I could imagine pull out (and/or fold down) shelves or clamp hangers. Maybe a small parts drawer or bin. Perhaps a pull up (and lock with a screw knob) light stand. Some electrical stuff for the grinders, drills, whatever you might use with it.
Maybe a way to lock the wheels so it would not roll down a grade.

Happy building,
hope you will share pictures along the way.

Bob

[Slagman]

I like your design. The only thing you may want to reconsider is the use of pneumatic tires. I would hate to have a tire "pop" on me from a real hot wayward flying spark. It doesn't look overkill to me. Do it the way you want to, that is half of the fun, it's your's anyways as you are the one that has to use it all the time.

Good Luck!!!
Slagman

[Mike Sherman]

How about an electric drive motor? You could fire up the gas drive and plug it in when you want to move it. Put a seat on it and an extra bottle storage area and it can double as a golf cart. Just a thought.

[GWOL]

Re: overkill

Originally posted by ryanevans
I have designed a welder cart i want to build but compared to your guys' that I've seen, mine is from Mad Max. It is 1" square tubing with a 1/8" plate on top and diamond plate sides riding on 10" pnuematic tires. I designed it to hold an arc and wire welder with room to spare.

Let me know what you think....

ryanevans,

That is a cool looking cart. I like the way you have the front wheel bar setup for stearing and pulling the cart. Would like to see pictures of it as you are building it. I just wish I have a bigger area in my garage for a real welding cart like your building.

[Al T.]

Great design, alot of thought went into that one!

Have you considered where to put the gun turrent?

[ryanevans]

Thanks for the suggestions. It does have 4 wheel steering I also designed a 2 wheel steering one but thought for the time and $ invested, might as well build it right once. I put pnuematic tires on it because I don't know where I will be rolling it and hate it when those little casters got caught on a pebble.

I will post pictures of it whenever I start building it which might be a while. I travel for work and am in Orlando now and scheculed to be in Ottawa for the first part of next year.

I have a few of other things planned to build too. A trailer dolly to move trailers around by their tongue, an oxy/acetylene cart, both with 10" pnuematic tires (Can't get enough of those $5 sales at HF), and a hydraulic crane for my utility trailer.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

[Guest]

Originally posted by ryanevans
Thanks for the suggestions. It does have 4 wheel steering I also designed a 2 wheel steering one but thought for the time and $ invested, might as well build it right once. I put pnuematic tires on it because I don't know where I will be rolling it and hate it when those little casters got caught on a pebble.

I will post pictures of it whenever I start building it which might be a while. I travel for work and am in Orlando now and scheculed to be in Ottawa for the first part of next year.

I have a few of other things planned to build too. A trailer dolly to move trailers around by their tongue, an oxy/acetylene cart, both with 10" pnuematic tires (Can't get enough of those $5 sales at HF), and a hydraulic crane for my utility trailer.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

That 4 wheel steering intrests me...I don't think I have seen it before. I'd like to know more about it.

As to the pneumatics, you'll be sorry on that one, if you put very much weight on it. They don't roll worth a hoot!

From your CAD drawing, it looks like you only have 2, maybe 3 inches of ground clearance...is that going to be enough?

I really like the overall design, and you are drawing it out to scale before you build it...I do also, to avoid problems, and get new ideas.

Oh yeah, it isn't overkill when it does what you need it to do....go for it!

[Roger]

Go to North Island Rework Facility or its current name. They use trains of rubber tired 4 wheel carts with 4 wheel steering pulled by small tractor to carry small items between buildings. They turn in surprising small circle with each cart following preceding one precisely in same tracks. They use wires crossing under cart in an X to link front steering to rear. Turn buckles keep steering wires tight. It's counter steering with front wheels turning right and rear wheels turning left. Carts have at
both front and rear king pin steering with tie rods.

When transporting long pipes they steer trailer wheels by pivoting the duel trailer axles as a unit.

[Bob]

I think the design will be more stable with each wheel pivot near the wheel (like the front wheels of a car) as opposed to a solid axel pivoting at the center (like a toy wagon). Looks like the rear wheels are that way, but I could not tell about the front.
The luggage carts used at airports also have the "X" actuators and each follows the path of the one in front.
Bob

[morpheus]

Originally posted by Rocky D

As to the pneumatics, you'll be sorry on that one, if you put very much weight on it. They don't roll worth a hoot!

I'm with Rocky. The pneumatic tires are quite difficult to roll. It takes far more effort to roll my welder cart with pnematic tires compared to my welding table with solid tires.

- jack

[ryanevans]

Rocky D-

What kind of weight are you talking to make these tires not roll? Does the tire compress under the weight and not allow it to roll or does the bearing bind?


My 4 wheel steering just has a link connecting the trailing edge of the front tires to the leading edge of the rear tires. When the tires turn, those tires' edges move to the same side. If you connect those edges with a link on a pivot, it will cause 4 wheel steering. Save the drawing I posted and zoom in close and you should be able to see what I'm talking about. All 4 corners of the cart have spindle versus have the whole axle turn. I have seen too many Little Red Wagons tip from a tight turn with a high center of gravity.

As far as ground clearance, I have been thinking of raising it a little bit.

For a brake, I have a couple ideas. One is to make it like the luggage carts at airports where, when the tongue of the trailer is raised, it pulls a piece of angle into the front tires. When it's lowered, a couple of springs retract it. Another is to get a couple of De-Sta-Co (or similar) clamps and let a rubber face lock against the tread.

[Guest]

Originally posted by ryanevans
Rocky D-

What kind of weight are you talking to make these tires not roll? Does the tire compress under the weight and not allow it to roll or does the bearing bind?


My 4 wheel steering just has a link connecting the trailing edge of the front tires to the leading edge of the rear tires. When the tires turn, those tires' edges move to the same side. If you connect those edges with a link on a pivot, it will cause 4 wheel steering. Save the drawing I posted and zoom in close and you should be able to see what I'm talking about. All 4 corners of the cart have spindle versus have the whole axle turn. I have seen too many Little Red Wagons tip from a tight turn with a high center of gravity.

As far as ground clearance, I have been thinking of raising it a little bit.

For a brake, I have a couple ideas. One is to make it like the luggage carts at airports where, when the tongue of the trailer is raised, it pulls a piece of angle into the front tires. When it's lowered, a couple of springs retract it. Another is to get a couple of De-Sta-Co (or similar) clamps and let a rubber face lock against the tread.

The tires being a soft material, will give you greater traction, hence, friction with the ground, inhibiting movement. The illustration I like to give is that of a railroad car...on steel wheels, riding on steel rails, reduces the amount of friction present and makes it super easy to roll. Granted, if you have only a little weight on it, it may work for you just fine...it's when you add more stuff on it, it will compress the tires giving even more traction, or friction to overcome. The harder the wheel, the easier it will roll for you.

I like the idea of that brake linked with the handle. That would be impressive to see!

Ya got some great ideas, Ryan! Go for it!

[DaveD]

Wish I could design like that. I usually scratch it out on a pad of paper and go for it.

On the wheels, My lincoln 200 has about 10" diameter hard wheels on it in the back and two swivel casters in the front. Very stable and rolls easily on concrete. If it doesn't go off the concrete I'd stick with hard wheels.

I totally agree with you on the 'little red wagon' type of steering. Very unstable.

Is the 4 wheel steer easy to use when trying to back the cart into a narrow area for storage? If you have to be a 'semi truck driver' to figure out how to steer it you might want to rethink it.

If you get a chance, look into how NASCAR guys build the steering on those big tool carts/boxes they have in the pits. All I know is they carry one heck of a load (probably 1500#+) and they are stable and roll easily (on pneumatic tires). My experience with the el cheapo HF wheels/tires is they leak after a few years and the sidewall flexes no matter how hard I make them.

One last caution, if the spindles and there attachment points are homemade be sure you have confidence in your welding skills. You don't need a spindle to break off under stress/load.

[Roger]

The 4 wheel steering for his cart is basic version what chevy is advertising showing pick up truck with trailer getting into imposable places.

For his cart it would be nice to have lever disengagment of rear steering that also locked rear wheels in normal straight position. Locking casters would be simpler. Could scratch your king pin steering system and use casters with home made steering linkage.