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  • Stand for Acetylene/Air Torch

    Attached are some pictures of an aluminum stand that I built this weekend for my daughters "B" size Acetylene tank that she uses with her Acetylene/Air torch for Jewelry making as part of her metal working class at Western Michigan University. I designed a place for the all of the stuff that she uses with the torch. I have also included two pictures of her silver soldering some silver earrings. In the first she is heating the earring to melt the flux. In the second she is using a titanium pick to transfer a drop of solder to the joint. Its been a great learning experience for me as well.

    I also posted this in this on the Miller Welding Discussion Forum and several people commented on the fact that she wasn't wearing safety glasses. Silver soldering may seem safe but if the solder pops due to a flux inclusion it can get you in the eye. Several people brought this to our attention based on unpleasant personal experience.
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  • #2
    Why Acetylene, and not propane or Mapp? Looks like acetylene would be the "dirty gas"alternative..??
    "Good Enough Never Is"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Hotfoot View Post
      Why Acetylene, and not propane or Mapp? Looks like acetylene would be the "dirty gas"alternative..??
      I would think the same.....but he did say acetylene and air so I'm guessing that has something to do with a "clean flame".... I wonder why not MAPP or LP as well....much more stable fuels in my mind
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      • #4
        Another reason for wearing glasses?

        Originally posted by Don52 View Post
        . . . I also posted this in this on the Miller Welding Discussion Forum and several people commented on the fact that she wasn't wearing safety glasses. Silver soldering may seem safe but if the solder pops due to a flux inclusion it can get you in the eye. Several people brought this to our attention based on unpleasant personal experience.
        Don, another good reason for your daughter to wear not only safety lenses but shaded ones is that the latter will afford her eyes much protection from the damaging effects of UV light. It's known that people with long term exposure to bright UV sources, like glass blowers, have a high incidence of cataracts of the eyes. Your daughter may not do enough silver soldering to cause significant damage to her unprotected eyes, but, why take the chance?

        LarryL, M.D., retired

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Hotfoot View Post
          Why Acetylene, and not propane or Mapp? Looks like acetylene would be the "dirty gas"alternative..??
          I purchased the same type torch that was used in her class to avoid confusion. I noticed that for some reason the Smith company is no longer making propane tips for their Silver Smith jewelry torch.

          "Why is air/acetylene the usual choice for silver? silver soaks up heat and spreads it throughout, in order to solder, the whole thing must be up to temperature. The softer flame (and lower temperature) avoids much of the tendency to warp and buckle with large pieces of metal that can occur so easily with a small very hot flame of the oxygen/fuel torches. This is why you are not likely to see an air/acetylene torch on a jeweler's bench (requirements being different in repair work etc.) and why some silversmiths so love the Smith acetylene, although that is not what you would want to use to re-prong a diamond ring with. The oxygen/fuel torch has a problem, as far as ease, with larger silver jewelry construction, although for fine gold work it is the thing to look at, for platinum it is a must."

          http://www.ganoskin.com/orchid/archi...4/msg00039.htm
          Last edited by Don52; 11-18-2008, 12:57 AM.
          sigpic
          Miller Thunderbolt
          Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
          Miller Dynasty 200DX
          Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
          Lincoln LE 31 MP
          Clausing/Coldchester 15" Lathe
          16" DuAll Saw
          15" Drill Press
          7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
          20 Ton Arbor Press
          Bridgeport

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          • #6
            Originally posted by LarryL View Post
            Don, another good reason for your daughter to wear not only safety lenses but shaded ones is that the latter will afford her eyes much protection from the damaging effects of UV light. It's known that people with long term exposure to bright UV sources, like glass blowers, have a high incidence of cataracts of the eyes. Your daughter may not do enough silver soldering to cause significant damage to her unprotected eyes, but, why take the chance?

            LarryL, M.D., retired
            Good point.
            Below is a list of gas welding shade numbers:

            Torch Soldering 2
            Torch Brazing 3 or 4
            Light Cutting up to 1” (25mm) 3 or 4
            Medium Cutting 1-6” (25mm-150mm) 4 or 5
            Heavy Cutting over 6” (150mm) 5 or 6
            Light Gas Welding up to 1/8” (3.2mm) 4 or 5
            Medium Gas Welding 1/8-1/2” (3.2-12.7mm) 5 or 6
            Heavy Gas Welding over 1/2” (12.7mm) 6 or 8

            I assume she could get by with a #2 or #3 lens?
            sigpic
            Miller Thunderbolt
            Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
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            7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
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            Bridgeport

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Don52 View Post
              Good point.
              Below is a list of gas welding shade numbers:

              Torch Soldering 2
              . . .
              I assume she could get by with a #2 or #3 lens?
              Since the darker shades afford more UV protection than the lighter ones, it may be best for her to try a #3 lens first. If she can't see the soldering area well enough, then she can change to a #2 lens. I have some goggles with a #3 shade lens, I believe, that I've used for oxy-acetylene welding, brazing and silver soldering. It's one of the type where the goggle's housing is spring-mounted so that the goggles can be pulled off easily to rest on ones forehead. They are very comfortable for me. Your daughter may prefer some shaded safety eyeglasses, though, since young people often place a higher priority on fashion over safety.

              I've been an advocate of good eye protection ever since a pair of safety eyeglasses saved my eyes from injury in the mid-60s. While working as an engineer at a chemical manufacturing plant, I occasionally used a Polaroid camera to take photos of equipment and installations. The camera's bulb-type flash attachment had a plastic diffuser over its reflector. After taking a photo one day, I noticed that the right lens of my safety glasses was slightly clouded. On inspecting the lens I saw that the front surface of the lens had several small pits in it. What had happened was that the flash bulb burst when it went off. Some molten magnesium particles apparently struck the diffuser in front and bounced backwards into the direction of my eye. I did not feel anything strike my face but the center of my right lens was pitted - as if someone had been aiming for the center of my eye! Had it not been for my safety eyeglasses I might have lost the vision in my right eye that day.

              Like many have said, we only have two of them and they have to last us for an entire lifetime.

              LarryL

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              • #8
                Originally posted by LarryL View Post
                Don, another good reason for your daughter to wear not only safety lenses but shaded ones is that the latter will afford her eyes much protection from the damaging effects of UV light. LarryL, M.D., retired
                Since plain, clear, polycarbonate safety lenses block nearly 100% of UV light, how is it that shaded lenses offer any more useful protection?
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                • #9
                  Depends on how much UV B radiation is being emitted

                  Originally posted by Zrexxer View Post
                  Since plain, clear, polycarbonate safety lenses block nearly 100% of UV light, how is it that shaded lenses offer any more useful protection?
                  Yes, I've read that statement a few times myself. Nobody, however, seems to have expanded on it. Personally, I believe that it applies to conditions in which the ambient light is of moderate intensity. When the light is more intense, for example, from a bright sun in the afternoon of a summer's day, the levels of ultraviolet radiation are higher than can be filtered out completely by clear polycarbonate lenses. Under those conditions people often wear sunglasses. There is universal agreement that welder's sunburn and arc eye are caused by the B radiation of the ultraviolet spectrum. The intense light from a welding source such as an electric arc produces large amounts of ultraviolet radiation of all types. When we're welding, none of us (with the exception, perhaps, of some Orange County welders ) would dare to shield our eyes with only a clear polycarbonate lens, would we?
                  LarryL

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by LarryL View Post
                    When we're welding, none of us (with the exception, perhaps, of some Orange County welders ) would dare to shield our eyes with only a clear polycarbonate lens, would we?
                    LarryL
                    The shade of the lens is for ease in seeing in very bright light... just as dark glasses on a sunny day make your eyes more comfortable from the intensity of the sun.

                    I'm not saying that you shouldn't wear shaded lenses in any torch work/arc processes; but I'm not sure that shading in and of itself offers any UV protection, although it may, I don't know. The coating used to APPLY the shading to the glass lens might be what blocks UV, as well. We used to have an optometrist on the forum, I wonder if he's still around...
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                    • #11
                      I was under the Impression that Gas welding does not produce UV:

                      Three types of light produced UV, IR and Visible.
                      Arc welding produces all three.
                      Gas welding produces Visible and IR only.

                      "welding, Principles and Applications. 3rd edition"

                      Does a Acetylene/Air torch even reach temps to create damaging IR?

                      So far the only thing I can find is that a Shaded lens is recommended only when working with Platinum.
                      Last edited by Broccoli1; 11-19-2008, 02:00 PM.
                      Ed Conley
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                      • #12
                        My wife uses safety glasses with a bluish purple lens for glass blowing with Mapp gas. I can tell you that with the glasses it is much easier to see the glass. Without the glasses you see more of the flame and less of the glass that you are working.
                        sigpic
                        Miller Thunderbolt
                        Smith Oxyacetylene Torch
                        Miller Dynasty 200DX
                        Lincoln SP-250 MIG Welder
                        Lincoln LE 31 MP
                        Clausing/Coldchester 15" Lathe
                        16" DuAll Saw
                        15" Drill Press
                        7" x 9" Swivel Head Horizontal Band Saw
                        20 Ton Arbor Press
                        Bridgeport

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Don52 View Post
                          My wife uses safety glasses with a bluish purple lens for glass blowing with Mapp gas. I can tell you that with the glasses it is much easier to see the glass. Without the glasses you see more of the flame and less of the glass that you are working.
                          Oh, you know, I'd forgotten about that - I had a good friend that was a scientific glassblower for a university, they called the phenomenon "Sodium flare."

                          I went and looked it up online, and found that sodium flare does in fact contain UV in addition to visible light:

                          "Though not itself harmful, this sodium flare is typically accompanied by both ultraviolet (UV) light and infrared radiation (IR) -- both of which can be damaging to one's eyes.

                          A good pair of didymium glasses will filter out UV, IR and sodium flare.

                          Technical note: The wavelength for sodium flare is 589nm -- well within the visible light spectrum of approximately 380nm to 750nm. Immediately below this range are UV waves at 290nm to 380nm. IR starts about where visible light stops at 760nm."

                          -GlassFacts.info
                          Fact No. 208. (Published on 8/12/2005)
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                          • #14
                            Pretty good link

                            http://www.insideoutbeads.com/article_4.htm
                            Ed Conley
                            Screaming Broccoli, Inc
                            http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
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                            "Hold my beer while I try this!"

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