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  • Help on MM251 need consumables recommendations

    Welllll Santa brought a spankin' shiny-new 251 to my place. However he was not polite enough to tell my wife that she should get a roll of wire to go with it. So we had to make-do with what was available at Home Desperate at 7:00 this evening after work.

    Here's what I got:
    100% CO2 gas
    Wire is Lincoln 0.30" L-56 MSDS#: US-W5 (I know it's probably not great, but it's the only non-flux core they had).
    Typically I weld a lot of 1/8th mild steel tube (think off-road cages).
    The tip/hood are what came with it and the stick out is about even.
    Initial settings:
    19.5V / 295 wirespeed / 25CFH on the CO2

    My results: I tried all over the scale, starting about where the manual recommends, never really got a GOOD weld/sound. Always sounded like angry hornets with a LOT of splatter. I know the machine is capable of a lot more than I've been able to get out of it as yet...

    So my questions are:
    1) What is a good wire to start with, forgiving and versatile (it takes me forEVER to get through a 10#)?
    2) Any recommendations on tips/hood combinations for a particular stick-out?

    I was thinking about .35 ER70S-6 in this configuration...

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also this is my first venture into MIG. In the past, I've used strictly FCAW, so this is a learning experience for me.

    Also I don't currently have a digicam to post pics of the welds. Even if I did, I would be hesitant to post pics of my turd-welds beside the likes of Rocky, Dan, and the rest of the pros here.
    It's all fun and games until somebody gets shot in the leg. -- Armageddon

  • #2
    I know you from the boards, so I can say this: Are you doing the welding on your cages with these welds?? I had someone else do the critical welding on my cages until I fealt comfortable.

    I think you should sell/give me the welder and bender and just buy bolt-on stuff from Qtec from now on!

    Good luck with the welder. I had a buddy who knows what he is doing do some work for me and I watched real close what he was doing and how he setup my SP175 welder for the application. I did learn on here the "action" to use for good "stacking nickles" weld beads. Search and find the circular motions drawing that was posted a while back. That helped me CONSIDERABLY. My welds are coming out NICE now and I feel comfortable with my welds to the point of doing critical thing on my own now.
    AtoZ Fabrication, Inc.
    Miller MM210--now X2
    Hypertherm 380
    Miller autodark hood

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ZACHV
      I know you from the boards, so I can say this: Are you doing the welding on your cages with these welds?? I had someone else do the critical welding on my cages until I fealt comfortable.

      I think you should sell/give me the welder and bender and just buy bolt-on stuff from Qtec from now on!
      Hey Zach, Oh I'm QUITE comfortable with my little Lincoln 135 running Flux core wire. This exercise is to make sure I can get comfortable with my NEW welder. Until then I will NOT be doing any critical work with the Miller. That's the joy of owning 2 boxes!

      As for buying bolt-on.... Not bloody likely... The only company I have found worthy of my bolt-on budget has been Mountain Offroad... and with the 251 and 375 cutmate, there's getting to be less and less that I can't do myself.
      It's all fun and games until somebody gets shot in the leg. -- Armageddon

      Comment


      • #4
        251

        Hi ,I would first try a gas mixture 75% ar 25%co2 Or something like that. With co2 you will get more penitration but alot more splater. I have always used 70s6 with my 250x and it has always worked good. Also I think you gas consumption is plenty high for steel I would try 15-20 if your inside. My tip is just slightly inside the protector. I also use .035wire ;I believe that is the factory size rollers. Most of the time I start with about 1/4 to1/2 inch of wire sticking out. Hope this helps have a good new year. Chub380
        Last edited by chub380; 03-04-2003, 08:10 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I am in pretty much the same situation. I am about to purchase a Hypertherm 380. How do you like your plasma cutter and what have you found it to do better than an Oxy set up?

          And yeah, MORE makes some nice stuff! Expensive, but nice.
          AtoZ Fabrication, Inc.
          Miller MM210--now X2
          Hypertherm 380
          Miller autodark hood

          Comment


          • #6
            plasma cutter

            This is for Zach V ,Two things right off the bat are that it can cut alum. and s/s. Have a good holiday Chub 380

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ZACHV
              I am in pretty much the same situation. I am about to purchase a Hypertherm 380. How do you like your plasma cutter and what have you found it to do better than an Oxy set up?
              I like it... did a lot of research and miller was easier to find/cheaper than hypertherm for me. Other than that, it's your basic ford vs chevy discussion. Can't compare to oxy-torch cause I've never had one. But it sure is nice to be able to cut 1/4"+ in a single pass that only requires light clean-up, when properly done, it's almost as nice as a machined edge.
              It's all fun and games until somebody gets shot in the leg. -- Armageddon

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help on MM251 need consumables recommendations

                Originally posted by bluesman2a
                Welllll Santa brought a spankin' shiny-new 251 to my place. However he was not polite enough to tell my wife that she should get a roll of wire to go with it. So we had to make-do with what was available at Home Desperate at 7:00 this evening after work.

                Here's what I got:
                100% CO2 gas
                Wire is Lincoln 0.30" L-56 MSDS#: US-W5 (I know it's probably not great, but it's the only non-flux core they had).
                Typically I weld a lot of 1/8th mild steel tube (think off-road cages).
                The tip/hood are what came with it and the stick out is about even.
                Initial settings:
                19.5V / 295 wirespeed / 25CFH on the CO2

                My results: I tried all over the scale, starting about where the manual recommends, never really got a GOOD weld/sound. Always sounded like angry hornets with a LOT of splatter. I know the machine is capable of a lot more than I've been able to get out of it as yet...

                So my questions are:
                1) What is a good wire to start with, forgiving and versatile (it takes me forEVER to get through a 10#)?
                2) Any recommendations on tips/hood combinations for a particular stick-out?

                I was thinking about .35 ER70S-6 in this configuration...

                Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also this is my first venture into MIG. In the past, I've used strictly FCAW, so this is a learning experience for me.

                Also I don't currently have a digicam to post pics of the welds. Even if I did, I would be hesitant to post pics of my turd-welds beside the likes of Rocky, Dan, and the rest of the pros here.

                Now I see what happened, Santa accidentally sent you my MM 251 . Oh well maybe next year.

                Anyway, lets see if I can answer some of your questions and maybe add a few comments of my own.

                Well, first I would like to address the choice of shielding gas. 100% Co2 is fine I used it for years. However, appearance wise C25 will give you a nicer looking weld bead. Also, since you stated that most of your welding is done on 1/8" the C25 produces more than enough penetration in the short circuit mode of metal transfer. Well that is enough about the gas situation for now. You need to master short circuit before we discuss your spray transfer options.

                Now onto your wire size. .030 wire will work for 1/8" material. However, since your wanting the most versatile wire size an .035 diameter wire would be a better choice. The E 70S-6 is a good choice.

                Next nozzle & contact tip relationship. Since your welding in the short circuit mode of metal transfer, you want the contact tip flush with the end of the nozzle. Also, make sure that you stickout doesn t exceed a 1/2".

                Lets see if we can come up with some starting parameters for you. First thing with CO2 19.5 volts is to low whether were looking at open circuit or load circuit voltage. On my MM 250 that I run at work the voltage setting on the dial is the open circuit voltage, however , I dont know if your digital readout is the open circuit or load voltage on your MM 251. So since my machine readings are open circuit I had my helper measure my load voltage . Anyway, I think with the .030 wire if you get your load voltage to about 20 volts and maybe the wire to somewhere around 270 to 280 IPM you might be in the ball park. To honest with you though this is a guess. However, I have a bottle of CO2 at work and a roll of .030 here at home. So, if this doesn t work for you I ll take the roll of .030 to work with me on Sunday and come up with some parameters that I ve actually tried. well good luck.
                MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                PM 180C



                HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                Comment


                • #9
                  Too much spatter

                  Hey Dan,

                  Just a quick follow-up, those numbers worked well, and I'm getting the hang of this GMAW thing. Thank you loads, sir!!!

                  I do have a follow-up question though:
                  I'm using 75/25 gas, with .035 ER70S-6, cause that just seems to work for everybody else with the kind of stuff that I'm doing.

                  It doesn't seem to matter settings I'm welding at, but I'm getting a lot of spatter on my work. I'm using mild steel, mostly 1/8 to 1/4" thick, and it's clean. I get small pin-hole pieces that fly out all over the place. They're sticking hard enough so that a knotted wire wheel on a grinder won't take them off. (sorry, still no digicam yet). I was under the impression with a shielding gas this wouldn't be as "messy" as FCAW.

                  Any thoughts, suggestions, or solutions for that?
                  It's all fun and games until somebody gets shot in the leg. -- Armageddon

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    splatter

                    I would set the wire speed at 10 or 11 o'clock and adjust the voltage to dial in best weld w/o splatter. Gas flow between 20-30. It can be done.

                    Also, this is a good source for consumables:
                    http://www.weldingdepot.com/
                    Last edited by cope; 01-20-2003, 12:03 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Too much spatter

                      Originally posted by bluesman2a
                      Hey Dan,

                      Just a quick follow-up, those numbers worked well, and I'm getting the hang of this GMAW thing. Thank you loads, sir!!!

                      I do have a follow-up question though:
                      I'm using 75/25 gas, with .035 ER70S-6, cause that just seems to work for everybody else with the kind of stuff that I'm doing.

                      It doesn't seem to matter settings I'm welding at, but I'm getting a lot of spatter on my work. I'm using mild steel, mostly 1/8 to 1/4" thick, and it's clean. I get small pin-hole pieces that fly out all over the place. They're sticking hard enough so that a knotted wire wheel on a grinder won't take them off. (sorry, still no digicam yet). I was under the impression with a shielding gas this wouldn't be as "messy" as FCAW.

                      Any thoughts, suggestions, or solutions for that?
                      If your stickout length is not exceeding the recommended range, it is more than likely just a matter of finding the proper settings, because with C25 you should be able to produce almost spatter free welds in the short circuit mode of metal transfer. For 1/8" try a load voltage of at least 18 volts and a wire speed around 260 to 280 IPM. For 3/16" try at least 18.5 load volts and a wire speed between 320 and 340 IPM. For 1/4" try 22 load volts and 350 to 380 IPM. Please remember though these are just some suggestions to try, because I dont have a MM 251 to try an get actual settings for you. So you know to get a good penetrating weld on the 1/4" material with C25 your going to have to start to enter the globular transfer mode ,so you will probably see a small amount of spatter.

                      Now if your wanting a deeper penetrating weld on the 1/4" material try a voltage setting between 24 and 28 load volts and a wire speed of 400 to 420 IPM. Now with C25 gas this will be globular transfer so expect some spatter. If you apply a anti spatter spray to the surface of your metal though most of the spatter should be removable. At these settings, the puddle is going to be fluid, so butt joints should be limited to the flat position, and fillets to flat and horizontal. The spatter problem can be eliminated at these settings by switching to a gas that has a 80% or higher ( not 99% to 100% though) argon content. By doing this you will be using spray transfer. As the argon content increases the parameters that produce spray decrease. On an all- in- one machine like a Millermatic 251 or 210 my preference is to use a 98% argon/ 2% oxygen gas mix.

                      Well I ve added more than you were asking for so I better quit, before I add anymore. One last suggestion, when you try these settings do some distructive testing of the welds so you can get a good idea on how your doing.
                      Last edited by Dan; 01-20-2003, 03:41 PM.
                      MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                      Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                      PM 180C



                      HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dan
                        Why can't you get spray transfer with 99% or more Argon mix? It sounds like it starts with 80/20 and ends with 98/02. Is there a reason this happens?
                        Thanks..... Cowboy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cowboy
                          Dan
                          Why can't you get spray transfer with 99% or more Argon mix? It sounds like it starts with 80/20 and ends with 98/02. Is there a reason this happens?
                          Cowboy

                          99% Ar / 1% Oxy will produce spray transfer. This is one of the recommended gas mixes for stainless steel because of the low oxygen content.
                          MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                          Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                          PM 180C



                          HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cowboy,It really starts around 85/15 argon-co2.It like 90/10 for all around gas.Thats because I can use one bottle for short arc,and spray arc.Plus when using pulse spray out of position type work it's good all around gas.You really need about ten different bottles to do most things the best.If you want to have just one bottle for steel a 75/25 is best,and then use some gas flux-core for heavier type Metal.Thats a very good way to go.that way you can even do some thicker stainless with that gas,with a wire change.Some .035 flux-core around is real handy stuff.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dan -Scott V,


                              Thanks for your replies. I was mostly just wondering about spray transfer with steel. I can't use my straight Argon for that,??? I need to get a bottle of 80/20 or 85/15, along with the 75/25 and the 100% Argon bottles I already own? I have a roll of .035 flux core and use it outside, and on rough stuff, but the welds don't look as nice, I'm just trying to learn what works the best.
                              Have you guys ever been to Ed Craig's WeldReality web site. Lot of differant thoughts out there, gotta filter thru it all. but having fun!
                              Thanks..... Cowboy

                              Comment

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