Miller 210 vs 251???

[bluesman2a]

OK, it's time to start looking into a serious mig machine. I've got a decent 110V for portable type jobs, but I want something nice for the shop.

I'm just a hobbiest welder, a majority of my work is around fabrication for offroad vehicles. In that arena, 1/4" is rare, and never really worked with 1/2". Most of what I do is from shetmetal to 1/8 to 3/16 thick, with a lot of tube-work.

I just read the post on the hobart vs. miller in the 210 arena, but my question is for the price difference, is the 251 worth it for what I'm looking for? Other than duty cycle and power output, what are the pros/cons for each unit, that I might see in the type of work I'm doing?

Any comments/advice would be welcome.

[cope]

Having never used either machine, IMHO, it would come down to $$ for me. The $600 price difference($500 if you opt for a spoolgun package) is nothing to sneeze at. I think either machine would do what you need, but the 251 would definately be nice if the money and wiring requirements are not a problem. Don't think you can have too much welder.

[Dan]

Re: Miller 210 vs 251???

Originally posted by bluesman2a
OK, it's time to start looking into a serious mig machine. I've got a decent 110V for portable type jobs, but I want something nice for the shop.

I'm just a hobbiest welder, a majority of my work is around fabrication for offroad vehicles. In that arena, 1/4" is rare, and never really worked with 1/2". Most of what I do is from shetmetal to 1/8 to 3/16 thick, with a lot of tube-work.

I just read the post on the hobart vs. miller in the 210 arena, but my question is for the price difference, is the 251 worth it for what I'm looking for? Other than duty cycle and power output, what are the pros/cons for each unit, that I might see in the type of work I'm doing?

Any comments/advice would be welcome.

Besides the obvious, the one big advantage the MM 251 has over the MM 210 is that the MM 251 will for sure produce spray transfer with an .035 solid wire. Were as I think the MM 210 will possibly produce spray transfer with an .030 wire. Not 100% certain about this yet I m still waiting on the bottle of gas that I need so that I can try it with my MM 210.

Other then this added bonus (plus the obvious advantages that you already knew) if you compare other area of the machines they use alot of the same parts. The gun is the same,and the drive roll assembly is the same.

Now, for the material thickness that your stating you weld on, at a hobbiest level, I wouldn t push my financial means to get the MM 251. The MM 210 if set up properly is more than capable of producing very sound welds on 1/4" material. And your still looking at a duty cycle around 35% to 40%.

[bluesman2a]

Re: Re: Miller 210 vs 251???

Originally posted by Dan
Besides the obvious, the one big advantage the MM 251 has over the MM 210 is that the MM 251 will for sure produce spray transfer with an .035 solid wire. Were as I think the MM 210 will possibly produce spray transfer with an .030 wire.

Dan, thank you for the complete, concise answer, that was exactly what I was looking for. I would be very interested in the outcome of your MM210 spray experiment. It could be the deciding factor in my purchase...

I do have one more question though... could you explain, in simple, layman's terms what "spray transfer" is and some benefits I might see from it in my environment? I apologize for the remedial question, but being self-taught on low-end equipment has not given me much exposure to these types of things.

[Chris Johnson]

I have the same question....have seen that the chart on a Miller 210 only goes down to a 22 ga. setting...the Miller 175 goes to a 24 ga. setting. Also wondering if continuously variable power control is a noticeable advantage over the preset taps? Are bigger machines ALWAYS better for everything? Let me know if you get some answers...thanks.
crj

[bluesman2a]

Originally posted by Chris Johnson
I have the same question....have seen that the chart on a Miller 210 only goes down to a 22 ga. setting...the Miller 175 goes to a 24 ga. setting. Also wondering if continuously variable power control is a noticeable advantage over the preset taps? Are bigger machines ALWAYS better for everything? Let me know if you get some answers...thanks.
crj

Well Chris, judging from some of the questions you've posted lately, I think you and I can relate on the neophyte scale more than some other folks here. Please understand that the following statements are coming from somebody who is a hobbiest welder and probably knows a LOT less than the average person around here:

1) The advice you're getting here is good stuff. For the most part these guys have no stake in what you get other than we get to hear you belly-ache about it later if we steer you wrong.

2) The bottom end on these welders IS a tricky area. When you're talking THAT thin it takes some serious talent NOT to burn right through it. At that point it's going to be YOUR talent as a the limiting factor, not the welder's.

3) In the case of welders, BIGGER equates to FLEXIBILITY. It sounds like you want the best machine for a LOT of jobs. For that you want a bigger machine. The variables you will be dealing wit are duty cycle, power/thickness of material, expandability (spoolgun), and adjustability (infinite adjustment). My advice, haveing recently gone through it is: BUY THE MOST WELDER YOU CAN REASONABLY AFFORD. In a year, I have been through three welders. I had a lincoln weldpack 100, which was too light duty for what I do. Replaced that with a 135, which isn't bad, and I'll keep for the 110V portability aspect, but it still didn't have the juice to handle larger stuff with the duty cycle I was looking for. Now I own a MM251. What little I've worked with it, I already know I made the right decision.

4) If you can afford it, and will USE it, you will NOT regret stepping into the 210/251 arena. If you are not a HEAVY user, I would suggest the hobart and save some bucks (still VERY nice machines, just not INDUSTRIAL).

5) Please note that I've qualified my answers in several places with "if you can afford it". Remember your shop does not run on a welder alone. Not sure how you're setup, but don't forget, there's ALWAYS other equipment you'll need (helmet, gloves, grinders, gas/bottle, raw material, clamps, etc.) don't break the bank so hard that you have a welder and nothing else.

[Chris Johnson]

Thanks Blusey....just read some stuff on how bad Miller arc quality is vs. Lincoln so am just going to cut to the chase and go demo everything they will hook up for me at the store....weld my way to an answer if possible.

[bluesman2a]

Originally posted by Chris Johnson
....just read some stuff on how bad Miller arc quality is vs. Lincoln...

You might want to check your source on that... When I go into fabrication shops locally, 7 out of 10 are sporting Miller products. These are folks that do it for a living, and have their businesses riding on the quality of their work. That speaks volumes to me.

But welding (in my book) can be a very personal thing, you have to go with what makes you feel comfortable (quality aside). There's no way to beat a test-drive, just make sure when you are demo'ing that they have you setup with apples and apples.

[Chris Johnson]

Will do that...thanks for the help....will gladly let you know what the wheel looks like after I reinvent it.