Taps or infinite?

[Chris]

I'm trying to decide which Millermatic mig welder to buy next summer after I pay off my wife's car. My question is what are the advantages and disadvantages of the Tap voltage control over the infinite type of control It seem to me that the infinite would give me more fine tuning capabilities. But then again would the tap v.c. be just as good with the infinite wire speed control?. I would like to get the MM210 but am wandering if I could be satisfied with taps. I do have a small Lincoln mig with both voltage and wire speed tap controls. The MM175 is a bit smaller than what I want and the MM251 is more than what I really need(But I am considering it). Any opinions would be appreciated
CB

[harold]

Chris

Chris go with the bigger unit if you can afford it. I bought the MM210 its a great machine and will do anything I have planned. Didn't get the MM251 because of the power draw. ( Also the MM210 was on a special package price that included the spool gun) If I had to do it over I'd get the MM251 and use the same breakers. That way when I crank the power up and trip the breakers I'd know it was time to run some heavier wire down and set up the correct breakers. Lots cheaper than getting a new welder.

[Dan]

Chris
Realistically, the MM 210 is all the machine that the "average" home hobbiest weldor should ever need. The machine will handle sheetmetal and have no problem welding out 1/2" thick steel in multiple passes. The machine outputs a high enough voltage and amperage to run an all position gas shielded fluxcore wire, which would be ideal for welding out the 1/2" steel in all positions. Also, the machine is capable of welding out the 1/2" material (steel) in multiple passes on flat and horz. fillets, and flat groove joints using solid wire and Co2 shielding gas in the globular transfer mode. There will be a fair amount of spatter doing it this way. However, If you spray the weld area with anti spatter spray you should be able to remove the spatter from the base metal. Even at full output (210 amps) the machine has a 30 % duty cycle. Based on info that I have received from Miller on the parameter chart for the machine the voltage varies about 1 to 1.5 volts between each voltage selection. Also, the voltage value for a tap varies based on the shielding gas being used. Plus the voltage varies some on each tap when you increase or decrease the amperage (wire speed) out put. The arc on the machine is very stable. Miller has engineered the machine so that voltage taps are within recommend voltage ranges for the material thickness range that the machine is designed to be used on.

To continue on with your question about the fixed tapped voltage selection, I have 3 wire feed machines (MM 210, HH 175, and CK sytematics 175) and they all have fixed tap voltage selections. To be honest with you I haven t had any problem tuning the machines in. Sometimes for a vertical up weld it is just a matter of dropping down to the next wire size. For example if Im going to be welding 1/8" and 3/16" material and some vertical welding is going to be involved I ll run an .030 wire instead of an .035.

Ok thats enough about the MM 210.

Now obviously, if you can realistically afford the MM 251 it is the superior machine. It allows you to do all three modes of metal transfer. Actually, I think I might be able to produce spray transfer with an .030 wire on my MM 210. Im planning on renting a bottle of 98/2 to give it a try. Ok back to the MM 251. The variable voltage control does give you some slight advantages. Mainly for vertical up and spray transfer fine tuning. However, as I previously stated the vertical up can be addressed by just running a smaller diameter wire. Besides by running the smaller diameter wire you get a higher current density which amounts to a deeper penetrating weld bead.

In closing I would like to mention that my purchasing of a MM 210 was based mainly on two thing. The first being that my wife would not allow me to spend $1600 on a MM 251. The second being that it was being offered with a free spool gun at the time. Now, am I happy with my purchase, the answer would be yes. The arc on the machine is incrediblly smooth and stable. Very little if any spatter.

Hope Ive given you a little help.
Dan

[Chris]

thanks for all the help guys! I never did expect to get such great replies to my question. I haven't decided for sure which welder to get but I'm really leaning towards the 251 now. I've got about 7 months before I buy so by then I'll know for sure.
Again many thanks, Chris

[Darrell]

Just Curious,

When you guys talk about the various levels of welding machines, in particular, upgrading from a Handler 135/175 to a Millermatic 210/251, you never mention the IronMan 210/251. What's your reason for this? Is there something that's missing or lacking in the IronMan product that could be addressed to make the IronMan a desireable product for the retail customer along with the Millermatic 210/251?

Thanks,

[BugEyedValiant]

The one thing that I see about the Handlers is that they have the light duty Mig guns.

[Roger]

Pull up spec sheets from web for each machine and compare them and price. It's more than just MIG gun which is appropriate for each welder. The Millermatic 250 goes to 300 amp with reduced duty cycle but Ironman only listed to 250. Ironman 250 requires expensive module to use mig gun. What is duty cycle for each welder? Decide on what features you want and what you can pay.

Ironman 210 has includes mig modual.

[Dan]

Originally posted by Darrell
Just Curious,

When you guys talk about the various levels of welding machines, in particular, upgrading from a Handler 135/175 to a Millermatic 210/251, you never mention the IronMan 210/251. What's your reason for this? Is there something that's missing or lacking in the IronMan product that could be addressed to make the IronMan a desireable product for the retail customer along with the Millermatic 210/251?

Thanks,

Darrell

First thing, I would like to see them both use the same wire drive system that the MM 210 and MM 251 use.

On the Ironman 210 I ve been trying to figure out why it comes with an M-10 gun. 100 amp rated gun on a 210 amp rated output welder? After all, my MM 210 comes with a M-25 (250 amp) gun. I would much rather at least see the M-15 gun being used on the Ironman 210. Then of course there is the duty cycle. The Ironman 210 doesn t compare to the MM 210. My MM 210 has a 30% duty cycle at 210 amp and if I remember right the Ironman 210 is about 15% at 210 amp. However, the BIG problem is the price. On average the Ironman 210 sells for around $1000, and the MM210 sells for a little over $1100. So, since on average there is only about a $100 difference in price between the MM 210 and the Ironman 210, and the MM 210 by far being the superior machine it is very difficult to recommend the Ironman 210. I guess a quick fix that might make the Ironman 210 more appealing would be to change the gun to an M-15 , and drop the selling price down to maybe $850-$900.

Now actually, if the MM 210 hadn t been offered with a free spoolgun, I would have purchased a Ironman 250. On this machine it would be nice to see it offered spoolgun ready and keep the same $1400 selling price. Other then this though since the MM 210 doesn t normally come with a free spool gun, I would put the Ironman 250 as a first choice over a MM 210 or Lincoln power Mig 200 if I was just wanting to weld steel and stainless steel. However, if it stayed at it current form it would be nice to see a slight $50 -$100 reduction in the price. However this probably isn t going to happen. Sorry though, in my mind the Ironman 250 cannot compete head to head with a MM 251. The only reason I almost bought the Ironman 250 over a MM 251 was because my wife would allow me to spend the $1400 but not the $1600+ that a MM 251 costs.

[Roger]

Rock once said the duty cycle of the guns on Ironman welders fit the output and duty cycle of the welders. They are trying to shave costs more on all Hobart welders as they are the home welders and Miller welders are the Industrial welders.

I think its better than Lincoln Electric selling imported lower cost welders to compete aginst bottom feeding brands.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

THANKS FOR THE QUOTE GUYS...... YOU GUYS ACTUALLY FILE THESE AWAY IN YOUR MEMORY BANKS OR DO YOU DO THE SEARCH..... WELL FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH I THINK DARRELL GOT A GOOD BIT OF INFO......... I WOULD LIKE YOU GUYS TO KEEP GIVING DARRELL ALL THE INFO AND IMPROVEMENTS YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE... I CAN NOT TELL YOU WHAT DARRELL'S SECRET JOB IS BUT IF YOU KEEP FEEDING HIM INFO AND REQUESTS HE WILL BECOME SOMEWHAT PERSISTANT IN REDESIGNING OR RETHINKING THE THOUGHT PROCESS OF THE ORIGINAL DESIGNS......... AND WHAT OTHER IMPROVEMENTS WOULD YOU GUYS (YOU ARE THE CUSTOMERS) LIKE TO SEE...................... HERE IS ONE FOR YOU GUYS TO KICK AROUND...............................BETWEEN THE T-BOLTS/STICKMATES WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE.............? COMMON NOW WHY DO YOU PREFER ONE OVER THE OTHER.... OK HOW ABOUT COMPAREING THE TOP 4 PRODUCERS OF THESE TYPES OF MACHINES........................?............YES BY THE WAY I'M AT MY NEXT ASSIGNMENT............................I WILL GET TO WORK 3 DAYS WITH YOU THIS WEEK THEN I'M OFF THE ENTIRE MONTH OF DECEMBER FOR A HOLIDAY. GOING PHESANT HUNTING IN NEBRASKE FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS................THIS IS A LONG SUBJECT MATTER FOR ME........... WOULD YOU GUYS LIKE ME TO TAKE MY LAP TOP WITH ME AND STILL ANSWER QUESTIONS IN DECEMBER FOR YOU.............OR ARE YOU READY FOR A BREAK FROM ME ............................ROCK
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