Trouble with handler 135

[grocery_getter]

Hi guys, I have a problem with the wire inlet guide (part#203-025) on the Handler135. It seems that the wire is getting hot and is grooving itself into the plastic wire inlet guide. It will "walk" from the center guide tunnel towards the edge of the guide at which point it finally jammed itself. The wire will get jammed bad enough that it will not roll out from the gun when the trigger is pressed. The wire tensioner is set at 3 according to the spec.

The machine was purchased late last year brand new from Northern Tools. I have been using .023 Firepower ER70S-6 on it since it was brand new with the Argon+CO2 mix. Last week, I switched to CO2 only for shield gas. I like the way the weld is with the pure CO2. The bead visually looks flatter and appears to have a better penetration into base metal. I dont know if the probem with the wire inlet guide is related to me switching to pure CO2 gas or not, but it only started happening after the switch.

At first, I thought that the tensioner is probably too tight, so the tensioner is backed out of 3 a little bit and I loosen up the wing nuts on the spool retainer shaft. I took out the plastic guide and reinstall it so that the bad groove is at the 9 o'clock position. I was hoping that was it and was hoping that the wire will be able to glide on the still smooth portion of the guide. No luck for me. I continued welding for maybe another 10 minutes before the wire got jammed again. I opened up the side cover and discovered that we now have a new groove again at the 12 o'clock position. Not knowing that to do and because it was getting late (local welding shop already closed) and I have just a little bit more of pipings to weld, I reposition the wire inlet guide again and continued with welding.

Tonight after dinner, I went into the garage to curiously check on that wire inlet guide and guess what...yet another new groove. We now have 3 grooves on the plastic wire inlet guide that was perfect yesterday. What is happening here? It never did this before today and today is the first day I weld with the CO2 gas. Is my hunch correct? Did switching the CO2 gas have anything to do with this at all?

Andre

[Hobart Expert]

Andre,

Since you stated that it just started when you changed to different wire, you should double check to make sure you have your wire spool feeding from the bottom (underneath) of the spool, not over the top. Please check and let us know if this is the problem, if not, we'll try something else.

Brian B.

[R. Nelson]

Re: Trouble with handler 135

Originally posted by grocery_getter
Hi guys, I have a problem with the wire inlet guide (part#203-025) on the Handler135. It seems that the wire is getting hot and is grooving itself into the plastic wire inlet guide. It will "walk" from the center guide tunnel towards the edge of the guide at which point it finally jammed itself. The wire will get jammed bad enough that it will not roll out from the gun when the trigger is pressed. The wire tensioner is set at 3 according to the spec.

The machine was purchased late last year brand new from Northern Tools. I have been using .023 Firepower ER70S-6 on it since it was brand new with the Argon+CO2 mix. Last week, I switched to CO2 only for shield gas. I like the way the weld is with the pure CO2. The bead visually looks flatter and appears to have a better penetration into base metal. I dont know if the probem with the wire inlet guide is related to me switching to pure CO2 gas or not, but it only started happening after the switch.

At first, I thought that the tensioner is probably too tight, so the tensioner is backed out of 3 a little bit and I loosen up the wing nuts on the spool retainer shaft. I took out the plastic guide and reinstall it so that the bad groove is at the 9 o'clock position. I was hoping that was it and was hoping that the wire will be able to glide on the still smooth portion of the guide. No luck for me. I continued welding for maybe another 10 minutes before the wire got jammed again. I opened up the side cover and discovered that we now have a new groove again at the 12 o'clock position. Not knowing that to do and because it was getting late (local welding shop already closed) and I have just a little bit more of pipings to weld, I reposition the wire inlet guide again and continued with welding.

Tonight after dinner, I went into the garage to curiously check on that wire inlet guide and guess what...yet another new groove. We now have 3 grooves on the plastic wire inlet guide that was perfect yesterday. What is happening here? It never did this before today and today is the first day I weld with the CO2 gas. Is my hunch correct? Did switching the CO2 gas have anything to do with this at all?

Andre

You stated that the groove is at the 12 o'clock position, it does sound as though you have the spool feeding from the top instead of from the bottom.

[grocery_getter]

thanks for the reply guys...

The spool is fed from the bottom, not from the top. I've just took the spool off again and discover that the adhesive paper wire information label on the backside of the spool is burned at one spot where the tail end of the wire is kinda sticking out.

I'm thinking that the wire might have arc to the fixed round metal plate on the back of the spool shaft and temporarily welded itself to the metal plate. When the drive roll pulls the wire forward, it tensioned the arcing and now **hot** wire enough that it cut a groove on the wire guide. As far as why the groove were occuring at the 12 o'clock position even though the wire is fed from the bottom, I'm using the smaller 2lbs roll instead of the big one. With the smaller spool, when the wire is falsely pre-tensioned such as the scenario above, the wire will enter the guide at a slight downward angle and touch the guide at the 12 o'clock position.

I pushed in the exposed tail end of the wire on the back of the spool and put 3 layer of electrical tape over the burn spot and so there wont be anymore of these accidental electrical contact between the backplate and the exposed tail end of the wire on the spool. Lets see if this fixed the problem or not, I have a full day of welding to do today. I can still reinstall the wire guide at one more position where there is still a smooth portion of the guide, hopefully this works.

BTW, just how much is the new wire inlet guide? Even if this works I'd still like to replace it since this one now has 3 grooves on it.

Andre

[Roger]

Could be using 2 pound spools getting bAd wire feed angle but that by itself shouldn't be enough to cause your problem. Lower reel drag as it is probably too high. You only want/need drag high enough to stop reel when feed stops. If reel drag tightens while feeding wire, drag is miss assembled. D-holed washer needs to be properly placed.

[R. Nelson]

Re: thanks for the reply guys...

Originally posted by grocery_getter
The spool is fed from the bottom, not from the top. I've just took the spool off again and discover that the adhesive paper wire information label on the backside of the spool is burned at one spot where the tail end of the wire is kinda sticking out.

I'm thinking that the wire might have arc to the fixed round metal plate on the back of the spool shaft and temporarily welded itself to the metal plate. When the drive roll pulls the wire forward, it tensioned the arcing and now **hot** wire enough that it cut a groove on the wire guide. As far as why the groove were occuring at the 12 o'clock position even though the wire is fed from the bottom, I'm using the smaller 2lbs roll instead of the big one. With the smaller spool, when the wire is falsely pre-tensioned such as the scenario above, the wire will enter the guide at a slight downward angle and touch the guide at the 12 o'clock position.

I pushed in the exposed tail end of the wire on the back of the spool and put 3 layer of electrical tape over the burn spot and so there wont be anymore of these accidental electrical contact between the backplate and the exposed tail end of the wire on the spool. Lets see if this fixed the problem or not, I have a full day of welding to do today. I can still reinstall the wire guide at one more position where there is still a smooth portion of the guide, hopefully this works.

BTW, just how much is the new wire inlet guide? Even if this works I'd still like to replace it since this one now has 3 grooves on it.

Andre

That could be it, let us know and good luck.

[Hobart Expert Dave]

Andre, You are correct on the problem of the wire sticking out the back of the spool and melting the guide, I have seen this happen when the wire spool is new and despools and tangles in the back of the spool touching the Baffle of the welder. When you are welding there is voltage on the wire alll this time and by touching the baffle which is ground it will get hot enough to melt plastic. As for the inlet guide call the 1-800-332-3281 and tell them your problem and you put it on weld talk and see if they will get one for you.
Thanks
Dave Evans

[Bob]

Andre,

Sorry for your misfortune. The upside everybody on this forum has some new knowledge and something to watch out for on their wire feeder welders.

My vote, which legally counts for nothing, is Hobart should give you a new part. I have not checked my manual, but I don't think this danger is addressed.

Bob

[grocery_getter]

that fixed it!!

It really is amazing what caused most of the headache in life. Its always the simple small inconspicuous thing. I was using the machine to weld for about 5 hrs straight today and no more grooves!

I really wasnt looking for any monetary/parts reimbursement from Hobart for the problem. I stopped by the local welding shop and found out that a new wire guide is only $2.50 That's cheap enough for me and I'm not going to dime and nickel this thing with Hobart so I got one on order and it should be here mid next week.

My 2 cents suggestion is to put some sort of hard plastic faceplate on the back of the spool shaft, big enough to provide cover incase of a tail end of the wire arcing to the back wall or a spool despooling accidentally and causing it to get "hot" and burn thru everything in there. When I bought the spool, I didnt see any wire sticking out the back but the wire label might be made from a very thin piece of adhesive paper and the electrical current just passed right thru it and caused a burn thru in a hurry.

I included some pictures, one is a picture of the grooved wire inlet guide, the other is a picture of the backside of the spool that is burned thru and one more of my KISS fix. Hey it works!

Andre

[grocery_getter]

stubby arced wire...

I pushed the stubby end wire toward the inside of the spool so it wont stick out and arc anymore.

[grocery_getter]

my KISS fix

[Hobart Expert Rock]

GROCERY GETTER......HEY I LIKE YOUR FIX. LUCKLY THE INLET GUIDE ROTATES 360 DEGREES.........IT'S NO BIG DEAL GIVE MILLER A CALL AND TALK TO MIKE, MARIE, DOUG, OR KEVIN ANY OF THOSE FOLKS WILL GET YOU ANOTHER INLET GUIDE....... TELL THEM ROCK SENT YOU (I"LL BET DOUG TELLS YOU HE NEVER HEARD OF ME AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT I TELL HIM)......... THEY WILL HELP YOU.........THANKS FOR THE INFO ON THE WIRE I CAN'T RECALL ANYONE ELSE TALKING ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR PROBLEM BEFORE OR IF THEY DID I'M JUST GETTING ABSENT MINDED ...............THANKS FOR THE INPUT..................ROCK
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[jcox68rt]

Same problem here

I had the same problem when I used my buddie's 135 up in the mountains the other week... I'll let him know what's going on and look at my 187 to make sure there is no tail sticking out of the spool that can arc. Also, we are now looking for the replacement wire inlet guide to replace the grooved one. Our local welding store can't make the order unless they have a minimum order and we would like to just order a couple off the internet to get it comin so we are back in service with the 135. Thanks for all the good info guys!