Air or Water cooled Tig Torch?

[pontiac]

I'm trying to pick the best torch for the jolly blue giant Tig I picked up over the weekend.

From what I understand since it's an AC only box it'll put more heat into the torch than a DC setup would..

Most of my projects will be 1/4" to 1/8" mild steel or Au
The machine has no Arc Balance control but does have gas & water selonoid's, flow meter and a foot amptrol.
It'll put out 400a but I doubt it'll ever see half that at my place.

Are the torcheds from http://www.welding-direct.com worth the $$? I'm looking at either a SR-26 200a Air cooled or a SR-18 350amp water cooled.

[Franz]

Any way you cut it, WATER is cheaper to operate in the long run.
"Air" cooled torches are actually cooled by the Argon flowing thru them, and Argon ain't cheap.
A water cooler is easy enough to build, and with antifreeze running thru it, you don't need to be concerned about freezing.

[chip hayden]

there's some good deals on ebay for water cooled torches right now, check em out. for the time being, you can run a garden hose in and out of your system. just let the "used" water green up your lawn. you sure it's just an A/C machine? i never knew they made one that big with just A/C.

[Dan]

Scott

200 amp air cooled torches are quite large. The 200 amp air cooled won t allow you into tighter spaces that a smaller 200amp + water cooled torch will.

However, I don t know the physical size of a 350 amp water cooled torch though. I ve only used 250 amp water cooled torches.

By the way, don t expect AC tig welds done on mild steel to turn out like tig welds ran on DC.

[BillC]

Originally posted by chip hayden
there's some good deals on ebay for water cooled torches right now, check em out. for the time being, you can run a garden hose in and out of your system. just let the "used" water green up your lawn. you sure it's just an A/C machine? i never knew they made one that big with just A/C.

I'm not sure that running the water through a garden hose works. In an earlier thread ScottV (I think) mentioned that the little pumps put out 50 psi. I asked if that meant the systems were closed and pressurized, but I don't recall a response. If they are pressurized, then running a non-pressurized system will allow localized boiling in the torch which is probably damaging.

Can anybody confirm if these coolers are high pressure or atmospheric?

Thanks!

[pontiac]

Thaks for the tips guys..

I may just go with a 200a water cooled torch..

Chip.. Funny you mentioned just running water through it and out to the lawn..

That was the plan to get me by untill I build a cooler

The machine was built in 1956..
I can't find anywhere on this thing that says AC or DC output..
I've been told it's AC so I'm going with that

Dan

I know AC Tig on Steel isn't the best process but this is the best I have for the moment

From what I've read AC should have a deep penetrating but wide arc.. Using High Frequency should help keep the arc stable.

Maybe I'll just spend all my time welding beer cans to 1/2" plate :P

[pontiac]

Normal household water pressure is 40-80 psi..
Our house has higher than average pressure so it should be ok.

[BillC]

Originally posted by pontiac
Normal household water pressure is 40-80 psi..
Our house has higher than average pressure so it should be ok.

Scott,

Your water pressure is only 40-80psi with an obstruction like a closed valve. Once you open the valve the pressure in the hose is atmospheric.

[Roger]

Your welder with water selonoid was made when water was cheap and plentiful. The water selonoid is for water from hose bib. The only problem with city water cooling torch is it could be too cold and cause condensation problems in torch.

[chip hayden]

i must admit, my first real job in the70's involved using that tig set-up. i never had a problem with gardenhose except when someone would turn off the sill****.
i guess your machine is A/C. i went down in the "archives" looking for that machine. no luck. guess you could reverse your work-electrode leads to see if there is a difference but, i doubt it. have fun!

[jason]

Pontiac, on an AC only machine don't even consider an air cooled torch. When I use AC on my little (175 amp) Lincoln, it only takes a few minutes before I can no longer hold the torch.

Domestic water hook up? Never heard of that, neat idea though.

Jason
________
XVS1100

[Franz]

Pump pressure doesn't mean much, as long as it's sufficient to flow water, or cooling medium, thru the torch. The cooler I built has a pump that will deliver 50# of pressure, and a bypass valve that allows the adjustment of flow thru the torch. Since the return from the torch is going back to the tank, actual pressure on the torch head probably isn't 5#.
With a cooler, I recommend eliminating the water solonoid in the machine, and letting the pump flow thru the torch constantly. This gives a cooler torch, and minimizes shock on the tube system to the torch.
Machines using city water should be equipped with a pressure regulator, as well as a good water filtration system. The passage in a torch head isn't very big, and it won't take a lot of crud to block it up, witch is probably why water fuses were invented.

[Guest]

I have a cooler also...water not going through the solenoid, but constant flow. Ya gotta keep an eye on the flow in the site glass, though...I smoked a torch when it ran out of coolant, once. It evaporates, some. I also use a tad of antifreeze...not too much or it will gum up the torch. The city water or garden hose situation should only be a temporary measure...at least out here where the water is as hard as a *****'s heart.

[Franz]

Rocky, I think your gumming up situation is more a function of the water reacting with the antifreeze. I've had the same batch of antifreeze in mine over 20 years and never gummed up a torch.
Demineralized water ain't that expensive, and it's **** cheap insurance on a cooler. Cat has been recommending it for years now when mixing engine coolant.

[Guest]

Yeah, I think you're right....we had Benard water tanks with Airco PA3's mounted on them with the boom and MK Cobra guns on 25 ft leads for aluminum. Each morning we had to clean the orange crud off the sucker filter in the tank to get the water to run....pain in the butt...we had access to demi water but they never would use it. Go figure. Then instead of adding water when it was needed, they added antifreeze, so that after a while the mix would be very thick with glycol. Never could convince the know-it-all mechanics to do it right. We only have one left out of 30, now.