What to buy?

[JeffCody]

I am looking to buy a new welder. I have no welding experience but my oldest son has some and my middle son is trained (including underwater welding) through the Navy but does not have a lot of experience (He's also out in a sub somewhere so not available for advice). I'm traditionally a wood worker but my oldest enjoys working with metal. I had come to this forum looking around for feedback on the Hobart Handler 135 as I was 'ready to buy'. The more I read, the more I felt that you would have to be more experienced to use a smaller welder and that I would be better off starting with the MM 210 (or bigger?). A few questions: With minimal experience are you better off starting with the small systems or larger?. If larger, how large? (initial usage would be car repair (unfortunately), creation of ground manipulation tools for a garden tractor, setting up my wood shop, and setting up my garage for hoisting.) Finally, one thread had someone buying an MM 210 for under $1,000 with a special helmet with autodarking shield. In my looking, I've seen nothing below $1,300 for just the welder. What is 'a good deal' for the MM210? Sorry so long...

[Arc Burn]

If you don't have a problem spending the money the 210 is an excellent choice.A good deal?I got mine with a spool gun and auto helmet for $1650 so if you find one for around $1200 it's probably a good deal.
The question is do you need that much welder?Lincoln and Miller both make very good "compact" machines,in the end it's all about $$$ and how much your willing to part with.Good luck

[JeffCody]

Thanks for the feedback. I often would have saved money in the long run on my woodworking tools if I had bought what I needed the first time instead of gradually moving up. So I'm trying not to make the same mistake. So I want to buy one that I won't want to upgrade from in a year.

[widetrackman]

Re: What to buy?

Originally posted by JeffCody
I am looking to buy a new welder. I have no welding experience but my oldest son has some and my middle son is trained (including underwater welding) through the Navy but does not have a lot of experience (He's also out in a sub somewhere so not available for advice). I'm traditionally a wood worker but my oldest enjoys working with metal. I had come to this forum looking around for feedback on the Hobart Handler 135 as I was 'ready to buy'. The more I read, the more I felt that you would have to be more experienced to use a smaller welder and that I would be better off starting with the MM 210 (or bigger?). A few questions: With minimal experience are you better off starting with the small systems or larger?. If larger, how large? (initial usage would be car repair (unfortunately), creation of ground manipulation tools for a garden tractor, setting up my wood shop, and setting up my garage for hoisting.) Finally, one thread had someone buying an MM 210 for under $1,000 with a special helmet with autodarking shield. In my looking, I've seen nothing below $1,300 for just the welder. What is 'a good deal' for the MM210? Sorry so long...

Hi Jeffcody , You might take a look at www.cyberweld.com they have mm210 w/helment to your door for $1188. I've bought from them, thier fast, Miller drop ships from their warehouse ( about 4 -5 bussiness days ) hope this helps-- happy welding )

[Sberry]

I totally agree if you are a tool guy,, and can swing the deal that 210 machine is the hot ticket. That thing will run 035 well. They are a full sized machine for a reasonable price. (cheap really) Great for repair work. Also Jeff, you must know from woodworking that when you want a tool to do some work you put it on 240V system. Welding machines the same way. That 210 will be way better machine.

[Roger]

MM175 or HH175 is all the MIG welder most home owners will need. They are light portable welders that can be easly moved close to work.

Real big advantage, MM210 is spoolgun ready without costly adapter. Spoolgun feeds aluminum wire without problems of pushing it down 10 ft+ welding lead. Spoolguns can have 25 ft + welding lead which is handy. MM210 is smallest welder that does spray transfer which produces better MIG welded joints on 1/4"+ steel. All MIG welders discussed should be able to easly weld down to 24 ga steel used in todays cars.

[Sberry]

Yes, Roger does make a good point too, the smaller ones are good too and they run .030 solid quite well. I have a Red one that I keep that wire in. I tell my auto mechanic thats the size he needs. Good for exhaust work.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HI JEFFCODY..........WELCOME ABOARD........ YOUR IN THE SAME DELIMA A LOT OF OTERS HAVE BEEN THRU........... WANTING TO GET THE RIGHT MACHINE THE FIRST TIME AND NOT HALFT TO TRADE UP.................. IT REALLY DEPENDS ON YOUR NEEDS AS FOR WHAT TO GET...........YES $$$$$$$$ HAVE A LARGE IMPACT IN THE DECISION MAKEING AS WELL........... HAVE YOU HEADED OVER TO YOUR LOCAL WELDING SHOP TO TRY THE MACHINES OUT YET...
THAT ALWAYS SEEMS TO HELP OUT IN THE DECISION MAKEING PROCESS....................... INTRODUCE YOURSELF...... HEY YOUR GOING TO HALFT TO BUY GAS FROM THEM MORE THAN LIKELY, CONSUMABLES, ETC.......... GET TO KNOW THEM ARE THEY HELPFUL OR NOT.................... IF YOU WANT ENTER YOUR ZIP CODE AND SEE WHO THE 3 CLOSEST ONES TO YOU ARE....... TELL THEM WHERE YOU FOUND WHAT YOU DID AND TELL THEM HOW MUCH YOUR PAYING $1100.00 SEE IF THEY WILL WORK WITH YOU..... REMEMBER IN THIS BUSINESS THEIR ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS................ I'LL ASK THEM IF THEIR ARE.......... OK NOW IT IS YOUR CALL........... LET THE FUN BEGIN AFTER ALL IT IS YOUR HARD EARNED CASH AND YOUR DECISION..................ROCK.....
[email protected]

[JeffCody]

Thanks for all the advice. What I get so far is: I don't have to look above the 210. The 175s may be enough and are far more portable (although given my experience with wood tools, knowing I would definitely want too much rather than too little, and knowing I don't have many 240V setups to take advantage of portability, I lean towards the 210). I can go to a local dealer and try before I buy. The dealers will deal but if not, there is at least one recommended Web site.

This forum is great. I'm sure once I get the welder, I'll be spending hours reading through here. Thanks again to all.

Jeff

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HEY JEFFCODY............I ALWAYS LIKE TO ASK HOW YOU FOUND THIS SITE......... WAS IT BY REFERAL OR FROM ANOTHER WEB SITE RECOMMENDATION................. EVERYONE ALWAYS LIKE TO KNOW...........ENJOY THE SITE........................ROCK........
[email protected]

[JeffCody]

Rock, I did a Google search for Handler 135 and one of the returns was a thread here on the 135. Numerous mentions of the 175s and the 210 in that thread made me start to look at many other threads. I'm glad I did...
Thanks,
Jeff

[INTP]

Your point about buying the right thing the first time is sound. I didn't realize how much I'd enjoy welding when I bought my off-brand 135A MIG, and I've already realized that I'll have to upgrade someday. But here's another point that I've learned: Money (and time) invested in the operator is rarely wasted.

My suggestion is to look for a welding class at your local community college. I'm taking one now that covers oxyacetylene (welding, brazing, and cutting), stick, MIG, and even TIG. The exposure will certainly help me when the time comes for my next welder (TIG).

Keep in mind that I'm a "near beginner" myself, but I've found learning on MIG to be a bit deceptive. It's pretty easy to lay down a bead, but I've realized that 1) MIG is harder than it looks, and 2) it's hard to learn to evaluate your welds from books. I'm finding that the feedback I'm getting in class with regard to analyzing my welds is really accelerating my progress.

[JeffCody]

Barry, I will definitely try to take advantage of any training I can find. Welding correctly just doesn't seem like it would be easy and welding incorrectly just doesn't seem safe or worthwhile. I haven't seen anything in our local schools but I'm going to expand my search. Thanks.
Jeff

[Dan]

Jeff

I own the MM 210, MM 175, and the HH 175. Of these three the one machine that I would not part with is the MM 210. It is true that the 175 amp machines are nice for there portablity, and they do offer quite a bit of potential in a small package. However, in the end they just don t measure up to the potential that the MM 210 has to offer. First of all the MM 210 gives you more out put power, which translates to making a much sounder weld on 1/4" mild steel then you can achieve with a 175 amp machine. On 1/4" mild steel with solid wire and shielding gas the 175 amp machines are a short circuit transfer only machine. which amounts to a shallow penetrating weld, that potentially can have areas with a lack of fusion. On this same material thickness the MM 210 offers you enough output power to use short circuit transfer, globular transfer, or spray transfer. Globular transfer is going to give you a deep penetrating weld with a lot of spatter. Spray transfer is going to give you a deep penetrating weld that is spatter free. For a high energy welding process like globular or spray transfer the MM 210 performance is not industrial so, the needs to be used at a moderate pace with these metal transfers.

Now, on this same 1/4" mild steel, you could choose to use a self shielded fluxcore wire instead. When welding 1/4" mild steel, with the 175 amp machines this would actually be the best option. The fluxcore wire will produce a hotter weld that will help eliminate lack of fusion issues, plus increase the depth of penetration. However, once again the MM 210 will out perform the 175 amp machines with this wire too. Once again it comes back to more output power available to you, which will produce a hotter weld.


Another area were the MM 210 potential far surpasses the 175 amp machines is the duty cycle rate. Duty cycle is the amount of time in a 10 minute time period that the machine can actually be used to weld before the machine needs to rest so that it can cool down. The rated duty cycle on the 175 amp machines is 30% @ 130 output amps. At 130 output amps the MM 210 has a 100% duty cycle . 130 amps is roughly the amperage that 1/8" mild steel requires. Now, the 30% duty cycle rating on the MM 210 is at 210 amps . The rated duty cycle on the MM 210 is 60% @ 160 amp. At 160 amps the 175 amp machines are at about a 20% duty cycle. In the end this all translate to the fact that the higher duty cycle of the MM 210 will give you more welding time and less stress on the internal componenets of the machine.


When you go in to try these machine take a printed copy of the prices that cyberweld (or the cheapest price you find) is asking, on average they have some of the best prices around. However, at first don t show the sales person this paper. Have them give you there quote first on the machine. If there quote is higher then you produce the Cyberweld prices to this person, and state that they need to match or beat this price. It might amaze you how much different the stores asking price and actual selling price can turn out to be in the end. When I bought my MM 210 the stores advertised price for the machine was $1175. In the end I purchased the machine for $1088, this ws a little bit over a year ago when Miller was offering a free spool gun with the machine. By the way, if you choose to purchase the MM 210, and it is before 7-14-03 the machine is suppose to come with the free auto darkening hood. So make sure this is part of the package.

Well, I ve rambled on long enough got to go my 7 year old son wants me to go play a game with him.

[JeffCody]

Dan,

Very useful info. Thanks for taking the time to put it all down. I now have a printed copy.

I think everyone has eliminated any doubts I have about spending the extra $$$ to get the MM 210. Thanks.

Jeff