Hh 135

[Maxwell]

OK.. now I am getting a little upset.... What the $#%... I brought home some 1" sq .083 wall tubing and tried to weld it with my HH135 using .030 solid wire and C25 gas.

I was not sucessfully able do this. It kept popping like it did on a previous welding job. I posted a question last time and it was suggested that the HH 135 could weld NOT .187 thick. Fine I thought, but surely it can weld .083 tube? Wrong.

In order to get my project started I had to use .03 flux core and reverse the polarity. The thing welded fine, had a nice soft arc and decent penetration. But whenever I reversed the polarity and went back to solid wire, I just could not get enough heat, the weld would just build up on the outside of the tube and not penetrate.

HELP.. What could be going wrong? Should this machine weld .083 CRS square tube?

If not... Any body wanna buy a 2 month old HH135?

Maxwell

[Planet X]

Well you have only got 135 amps to work with and the ideal range for short circuit runs from 100 to 200+ amps And I read somewhere that .074 would suck up 175 amps

300inches per minute w/ .030 wire should max out your welder-if I am interpreting the chart Hobart expert Kevin posted at the "a stupid question post" So use a setting less than this WS and see if you can get an arc going.

You are probably going to have to waste $ on some thinner wire-do they make thinner wire than .030 ? Or stick to flux core wire which has the skinnier electrode anyway than non-flux wire of same decimal # (gotta have room for the proprietary flux stuff)

Anyway I'd hang tough until Monday when the salaried boys get online

[Maxwell]

Thanks PlanetX,

Don't know how to wire speed. Any suggestions?


Maxwell

[cope]

Originally posted by Maxwell
Thanks PlanetX,

Don't know how to wire speed. Any suggestions?


Maxwell

With your voltage on tap 4, set the wire speed between 9 O'clock and 12 O'clock. Then dial in the speed from there.

[Maxwell]

Sorry Cope, my mind was going faster than my fingers.

How do I check the wire speed in terms of in/min as suggested by PlanetX?

I did try those wire speed settings (or somewhere between 9-12 o'clock) and got the same results. Oh, I was on heat setting 4.

Thanks

Maxwell

[Hobart Expert Mike]

Maxwell,

Do you have a volt meter? If so check your incoming voltage from your receptacle as you weld. If you are using an extension cord get rid of it. You need to be on a dedicated circuit, our engineers suggest a 20amp dedicated breaker for that welder. My brother-in-law complained to me of a similar situation and when I checked out his incoming voltage to the welder, while he was welding his line voltage would drop below 100 volts. When I tried welding on some thinner sheet metal around 20ga I would notice some inconsistancy in the weld, the line voltage was dropping to around 104vac. My brother inlaw since has had his electric redone in his building and has no problems with it now. I also told him that when he is welding this thicker material he should really use the larger welder he has.

Mike

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HI PLANETX.........SALARIED BOYS.............

MAXWELL................IF YOUR STILL HAVEING PROBLEMS BY ALL MEANS DIAL US UP...........CHECK OUT WHAT MIKE SUGGESTED. HERE IS THE WFS FOR RANGE 4 MINIMUM=80 AND 4 MAXIMUM=213 RPM..............IPM IN RANGE 4=300 MIN AND MAXIMUM IPM=800........VOLTAGE AT THE OUTPUT STUDS FOR RANGE 4 IS 27.5.................DOES THIS HELP YOU OUT........OR YOU CAN CALL ANYONE HERE MYSELF, MIKE, STEVE, KEVIN, DOUG, MARIE...............ALL CAN HELP.........................ROCK.............
[email protected]

[banzaitoyota]

I have a dedicated 20 amp circut wired with 10GA.

[Maxwell]

Fair analysis, Mike

I do have a volt meter and I think you maybe on to something here. The welder is plugged directly into the outlet, but it is a 15 amp circuit.

Couple of questions:

1. How should I check the voltage? What should it be before (range?) and during welding?

2. Is welding .083 thick material w/ gas and .03 dia wire outside the capability of this machine?

3. Would a thinner wire be better in all cases?

4. If the circuit does not approach overload in amps, how can a larger rated amp circuit provide less voltage drop? Conductor size? Assuming 12 Gage for a 20 amp service VS. 14 Gage for a 15 Amp?


I was thinking that may be a problem, but unsure to check verify voltage drop issues. It seems to me that the only thing changing when going from flux core and solid wire is gas and the power requirements for the different methods of shielding. In other words the welder is not changing, therefore should be OK? Is this solid logic?

Thanks

Maxwell

[Bob]

Maxwell,
you probably need two people to check the voltage while welding: one to weld the other to watch the meter. meter connectes across another outlet on the same circuit set on an AC volts scale that will handle 120-130 VAC.

In my older house the orginal circuit was 16ga wire, it serviced all the outlets in four bedrooms and half the living room before it got the garage. First night I started up my radial arm saw all the flouresent lights went out. I now have a direct 12ga run of about 35'. Works much better.

You do have a good point about "how come flux core is OK and straight wire is not?" And it sounds like you got the polarity right. Might check gas is really getting out of the nozzle. Maybe put a baloon over the nozzle on purge??? Dan did have an HH-135 with a mis-routed gas line that was pinched off inside.

Bob

[Hobart Expert Mike]

Maxwell,

If you have a 15amp circuit, I am assuming there are other things using this circuit also, possibly lights and maybe some other outlets. When the voltage sags there is not enough to get enough amperage draw. Voltage is the force that pushes the amperage. The welder needs 15vac +/- 10%. The lowest drop in voltage would be to around 104vac, and even then you'll see some adverse effects. As the voltage drops below 115v the output drops and reduces the material thickness it can weld. You are welding material of about 12ga thickness which is about the top of the range for this welder using .030 gas shielded wire. Using .035 flux cored will use less primary amperage and will get you up to 3/16" mild steel. So when using the flux cored wire you are probably staying within a workable amperage range for your supply voltage and welder combined.

Mike

[Planet X]

Maxwell, to measure how much wire your machine spits out just use your watch(or clock) and a tape measure. Turn your rig on and set it at say ws (wire speed) tap 1 . Now trigger your gun for 30 seconds and make sure wire wont touch ground. Next cut the wire off and measure it say you get 60 inches, times that by 2 you get 120. 120 inches per minute. Yes you could just trigger your gun for 1 full minute and forget the 'engineering' level math
Mig welding uses a constantly fed electrode ( your wire) to draw amps out of your machine. Now wires come in a specific sizes the larger the wire size the larger the potential current draw out of the machine. Course each machine can provide only so much 'juice' this is probally why your HB135 works with the flux-core vs. non-flux wire.

Regular e70s-6 .030 wire IS very close to .030 in diameter and it's all 'wire' capable of drawing current.
Now Flux- core wire .030 size is 'wire' and flux but still .030 in diameter, BUT the 'wire' part of it is smaller-probally .023. The metal part of this stuff is what carrys/draws the juice and since it is smaller it will take less heat to melt it.

[Maxwell]

Is checking the primary or secondary (low voltage) the most important way to measure the available voltage druing welding?


Thanks

Maxwell

[Hobart Expert Mike]

Maxwell,

Primary voltage drop is what you need to check. I actually suggest having an electrician check it for you if you do not know how to go about it. Electricity is not something you want to play with if you do not know what you are doing, .001amps to heart or brain will kill. Be safe!

Mike

[Blacksmith]

HH 135

First of all - don't mess with electricity if it makes you nervous or scares you - but respect it. If your receptacle has two openings, ensure the meter is set for Volts AC, with at least 130 volts. place one of the test probes in one slot and then the other in the other slot. they should stick in - you can always turn off the breaker, insert the probes and then turn it back on. Have someone watch the meter while you weld. 110-115-120 are all names for the same nominal voltage. What you read unloaded could be as mentioned, as high as 130 volts, what counts is the voltages when you're welding, it shouldn't be less than the label plate rating on your welder. Or your saw, air compressor, what ever. All the recommendations for heavier gauge wire is where it's at. The recommended sizes are minmums, going one size larger (smaller number) when you're pushing the limits is cheap insurance to get maximum performance. I.e. use 12 gauge for 15 amps and 10 for 20 amps.

Blacksmith