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30 amp 120 volt GFCI outlet for HAF 250A

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  • 30 amp 120 volt GFCI outlet for HAF 250A

    Is there such a thing as a 30 amp 120 volt GFCI outlet?

    I bought a 25' 10/2 extension cord from a RV accessories place so I can use my HAF 250A somewhere besides right next to the subpanel - where I've fed a new 30 amp 120 volt circuit, (using a 20 amp GFCI outlet temporarily).

    The RV extension cord's male end has a "dryer" type plug - two big blades at about 60 degree angles from the ground lug - and the outlet I'm looking for would need to fit that plug. (The female end of the cord has a plug-in adapter from the "dryer" type to a conventional parallel-blades plug such as the HAF 250A has . . . . If the words aren't clear, I can post a photo later.)

    So far I've only found the correct shaped outlets in non-GFCI configuration. And NO, I'm not gonna buy a 30 amp GFCI circuit breaker - I'm already well over a hundred bucks into getting this `&*^%$#~ Hobart to work again!
    M D "Doc" Nugent - www.carcentric.com
    Two Hobart Handler 135's (both MGAW, one .024" and one .030")
    One Hobart AirForce 250A (plasma cutter - 12 amp rated output but requires a 30 amp circuit breaker)

  • #2
    Since this is a dedicated outlet to a dedicated grounded tool forget the gfci, you dont need it. You could have skipped the special recepts but it wont hurt anything and since you have special recepts common tools cannot be plugged into it you are good to go without gfci.
    Last edited by Sberry; 05-15-2006, 02:58 PM.
    http://www.facebook.com/cary.urka.urkafarms

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    • #3
      Doc,

      Why did you run a 30A circuit for it? It only needs 20A. GFCI's don't come larger than 20A. I think the plug on your RV cord is probably a 10-30. If the ground spade is "L" shaped, it is.

      The plug on the AF250A sounds like a 5-15P (115V, 15A). If it were a 5-20P, one of the flat blades would be rotated 90° to the other. You could just as well have bought yourself a 12-3 extension cord, installed a 5-20R, and run #12's!

      But, overkill is OK, too!

      Anyway, like Cary said, GFCI is not really warranted for the application. If you really want it, though, you'll have to pony up for a GFCI breaker!

      Hank
      ...from the Gadget Garage
      MM 210 w/3035, BWE
      HH 210 w/DP 3035
      TA185TSW
      Victor O/A "J" series, SuperRange
      Avatar courtesy of Bob Sigmon...

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      • #4
        They make 2 pole GFI's, but i bet it's around $150. +......
        ______________________________________
        Bakery Mechanic
        Licensed Electrician
        check out: www.mattesbydesign.com great for vinyl lettering
        "Why do i ask such difficult questions? 'Cause i know the answers to the easy one's!"
        *****Heineken*****
        -any questions or discussions on 'gout' are welcome-

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        • #5
          Hank, the main reason for the 30 with the H250A is its has its own on board air comp and is a small unit so its always tapped out. This wouldnt be the first one that had tripping problems. If it was mine it would be on a 30 and no gfci.
          http://www.facebook.com/cary.urka.urkafarms

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hankj
            Doc,
            Why did you run a 30A circuit for it? It only needs 20A. GFCI's don't come larger than 20A. I think the plug on your RV cord is probably a 10-30. If the ground spade is "L" shaped, it is. . . . Hank
            There's another thread on this board that beats the dead horse of why I installed the new circuit - http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/...hlight=haf250a to save you a search.

            Suffice it to say that even though the HAF250A is sold as requiring 20 amp input, it won't reliably run on that amperage. The unit has been checked by an authorized repair facility (at my cost, since no anomalies were found), and Hobart people (factory and local) say the "cure" is to use a 30 amp circuit, which I didn't have at the time.

            Now to your other question - the ground lug on the extension cord is not "L" shaped, it's the same as the ground lug on the Hobart plug. Here's a pic of both:


            Since everybody so far agrees there is no such thing as a 30 amp GFCI outlet, I guess I have the choice of using a 20 amp GFCI outlet (with adapter between the outlet and cord) or a 30 amp non-GFCI outlet (sounds like that's the recommended route as there's no GFCI shock protection needed).
            M D "Doc" Nugent - www.carcentric.com
            Two Hobart Handler 135's (both MGAW, one .024" and one .030")
            One Hobart AirForce 250A (plasma cutter - 12 amp rated output but requires a 30 amp circuit breaker)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sberry27
              Since this is a dedicated outlet to a dedicated grounded tool forget the gfci, you dont need it. You could have skipped the special recepts but it wont hurt anything and since you have special recepts common tools cannot be plugged into it you are good to go without gfci.
              The proper code reason for not needing a GFI is the fact that the receptacle will be above 20 amps .
              The only reason a 20 amps and below receptacle could be a non GFI in a garage is if it's a single or duplex receptacle for two appliances that, in normal use , is not easily moved from one place to another or if the receptacle is not readily accessible . 210.8(A)2

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              • #8
                Well, now that you wiped my glasses for me, I recall that discussion!

                Grappletractor, I don't think Phil was looking for the code rerquirement (although you be right on!). He just wanted to be safe!

                Have fun with it, Phil. Mine still runs on O/A!

                Hank
                ...from the Gadget Garage
                MM 210 w/3035, BWE
                HH 210 w/DP 3035
                TA185TSW
                Victor O/A "J" series, SuperRange
                Avatar courtesy of Bob Sigmon...

                Comment


                • #9
                  The NEC 'is' a minimum........
                  ______________________________________
                  Bakery Mechanic
                  Licensed Electrician
                  check out: www.mattesbydesign.com great for vinyl lettering
                  "Why do i ask such difficult questions? 'Cause i know the answers to the easy one's!"
                  *****Heineken*****
                  -any questions or discussions on 'gout' are welcome-

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What I bought (specs)

                    I picked up a (non-GFCI) 30 amp 125 volt outlet today that fits on the RV extension cord shown a few posts above.

                    Turns out it's called a "Trailer Outlet" (surprise!) - Pass & Seymour Cat No 3830 (flush mount 2P 3W Non-NEMA configuration) if anybody else needs one.

                    The only faceplate for it was a stainless steel one, but that's okay I guess.
                    M D "Doc" Nugent - www.carcentric.com
                    Two Hobart Handler 135's (both MGAW, one .024" and one .030")
                    One Hobart AirForce 250A (plasma cutter - 12 amp rated output but requires a 30 amp circuit breaker)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That will work and it keeps things from being plugged in there that shouldnt be.
                      http://www.facebook.com/cary.urka.urkafarms

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        = = Update = =

                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                        - - - - THREE MONTHS LATER - - - -
                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


                        It was impossible to add the new outlet IN the wall, so I had to use a surface mount box (right below the subpanel). There's a pretty short run of 10-2, and the "RV hookup" extension cord (with 120v 20 amp shaped adapter on the end) is also 10-2.


                        Here's a close-up of the outlet - marked as suggested.


                        I've also started using a kitchen countdown timer so I don't exceed the 3.5 minutes of cutting and 6.5 minutes of not cutting (35% duty cycle). It sticks to the car via a built-in magnet and beeps when the time has elapsed.


                        And yes, the plasma cutter is working again. :crossfingers:
                        M D "Doc" Nugent - www.carcentric.com
                        Two Hobart Handler 135's (both MGAW, one .024" and one .030")
                        One Hobart AirForce 250A (plasma cutter - 12 amp rated output but requires a 30 amp circuit breaker)

                        Comment

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