SyncroWave 180 or T/A 185??

[Bobster]

I've been watching the discussions on this board since I started my search for a TIG machine for my home shop. I'll be fabricating mild steel and 4130 tubing, 0.120 wall typically.

Since I only have a 100 amp service, I've been leaning toward inverter machines because they have lower line draw requirements.

My first choice, the ESAB 161, has not been getting good reviews here or from my local dealers.

I can't find a local dealer for the T/A 185 and the internet inquires have not been responded to yet? Any Internet dealers that answer email out there??

The local Miller dealer gave me a price that is only a few dollars higher than the internet price for a SyncroWave 180 Tig Runner package. This machine draws a max of 54 amps, I could live with that. It'll be on it's own breaker and I'll make sure wifey doesn't dry clothes or cook when I'm welding, (at least until I can get a 200 Amp serveice installed!)

Is the MIller a good choice or should I hunt down the T/A 185??

We do have some line fluctuation issues in this area, my pc's on a line regulator and it's always flashing "Low Line".

Thanks for your input,

[Scott V]

Bobster,The Thermal has one advantage that nobody ever talks about when dc welding.The upslope,and downslope,and the ability to use a straight button control for out of position work.It has many other advantage also like pulse,and much smoother dc output.It also has lift arc if you are worried about your computer.That' only on the dc side when you start talking ac then things really start to widen even more.You will have three years to get you voltage problem fixed,before your warranty runs out.The new inverters are much better than the old ones in voltage spikes.Still I would still try to avoid them anyway.I would say that is one possible advantage of the 180,probably the only one.Unless you count the built in plastic cable wrap.

[Dan]

Did I read that correctly? Scott just recommend the Syncrowave 180 over an inverter. What next, a Millermatic Pulser over a Lincoln powermig 300 .

Bobster' if your input voltage fluctuates quite a bit your best bet is probably going the transformer machine. I have ran a Syncrowave 180 , and was quite impressed with it. The arc starts were great, and the DC arc is quite smooth. To TIG weld .120 wall 4130 tube you don t need all the fancy features that an inverter would bring to the table.

However, I must admit, with your 100 amp service an inverter would definately be the preferred machine, because of the the low input requirement. However, I would have to be 100% certain that machine wouldn t be destroyed by your power flucuations before I ever bought one.

[Bobster]

Thanks for the responses.

I'm going to monitor the line voltages at the panel and see if the fluctuations are there or in the house wiring. It's a 40 year old house, so this may be part of the problem, if it's wired with aluminum wiring, common back then.

I emailed Central Welding Supply for a quote on the T/A 185 and I found a dealer about 20 miles from here that I'm going to see today.

I'm building my "dream shop" and want to get the most bang for my $$, so I'm taking my time and searching out hardware that will last me into my "working" retirement.

It's been a few years since I held an electrode holder or torch so you'll be hearing from me as I get back up to speed.

I've been impressed by the depth knowledge and cooperative attitudes displayed on this board. No flamers, smart, experienced folks helping each other and the "new guys". Looks like a good comminity to me!

[Henro]

Hi,

I got my ta/185 from Bill at "AAA Wholesale Welding Supply" <[email protected]>

Only time I have bought anything from them. They are in NY State. Took about 10 days to get the kit, as they did not have one in stock. Paid about $1,660 delivered to my door.

Power line fluctuations, or just low voltage in your area? My guess is that it is not an issue. As long as the supply voltage is within the spec of the machine. Fluctuations would be a lot of voltage change over a short period of time. If that lamp on your PC supply is always on, this may only tell you that the incoming voltage is on the low side.

The T/A offers a lot more in the way of control over the SD180. I looked at the sd180 myself before deciding on the TA. The TA is a well made unit from what I can see on the outside. I was surprised at how much I like the control panel. It is a membrane type, but the buttons offer tactile feedback when you push them and it is very easy to understand and use. It is NOT the kind of membrane panel that is on the microwave in our kitchen.

Personally I love the beautiful simplicity and reliability of magnetic power control...but in the end, the increased control capability and lower weight and smaller current draw, and greater efficency when the welder is not welding [very low power consumption when turned on but not welding] won me over, and I went with the inverter rather than the transformer type.

In my opinion the biggest worry with the inverter is the complexity and the possibility of a electronic component failure sometime after the 3 year warrantee is up. Even then, electronics equipment can last a really long time, and often breaks in the beginning. Use it a lot in the first three years and hopefully the bugs will all be killed by the time the warantee runs out. Wishful thinking, maybe...

Happy hunting...

[Bobster]

I'm firing up the email to "aaaweldingsupply" right now.

Thanks for the info.

I assume you bought the package deal with the cables, foot control and regulator ?

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HI BOBSTER...........YES MILLER/HOBART ANSWER INTERNET E-MAIL..... I GET A GOOD BIT IN A DAY'S TIME....... DON'T THINK I'VE SEEN YOURS YET..............

SO THE SD180 OR THE T/A INVERTER........... SOUNDS LIKE YOU'VE BEEN DOING YOUR HOMEWORK......... SO I (AND OTHER'S) WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOUR DECISION IS/WAS......... AND WHY.... IT WILL HELP MILLER/HOBART BETTER HELP YOU THE CUSTOMER IN THE END............... AND WELCOME ABOARD..............ROCK....
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[Bobster]

Hi Rock,

Sure I'll let everyone know what my final choice is, I'm still trying to figure that out myself!

I just got two quotes on the T/A 185 and it'll only cost about $140 more than the 180SD. I like the simplicity of the 180SD and it is Blue, but the current draw is an issue. Maybe you can help a bit here. The 180SD owners manual states that the line draw is 54 amp at full rated AC output, and 45 amps at full rated DC output.

BUT the data sheet states that the line draw is 68 Amps at full rated output??? Which is the real number? Is the higher number the new rating for the upgraded 180SD?

Thanks for your input,

[Henro]

Originally posted by Bobster


Thanks for the info.

I assume you bought the package deal with the cables, foot control and regulator ?

Yes, that's correct. Even came with an extra pair of plugs for the power cables [wasn't expecting that] and all the other goodies...

[BugEyedValiant]

Hey Rock,

I know what would make his mind up, price the Dynasty 200 in a similar package for the same money I know that would make me purchase one! I really want the Dynasty, but the Spectrum 625 that I bought this weekputs a damper on that plan. Just wanted to let you guys know that the 625 is a great machine!

[Bobster]

I made my decision and placed my order for a Thermal Arc 185STW today, I should have it by Wednesday but I won't have it up and running until I get the garage wiring done and the 50A outlet installed, probably in a couple of weeks, this weekend will be taken up by an "Old English Sheepdog" outing that my best buddy, Chester, is planning on attending.

I was influenced by the discussions on this board and the favorable reputaion that the T/A 185 seemed to have, more than the extra features the T/A has over the Syncro Wave 180SD.

The deciding factors were;

1. Some deeper investigation revealed that the max line current requirements for the 180SD can be over 70 Amps, Miller recomends an 80 Amp breaker for this machine. That put it out of the picture, unless I went for a new 200 Amp service.

2. The cost of the T/A 185 was only $35 more than the best LOCAL price I could find for the 180SD and $135 more than the best internet price I could find for the 180SD.

I was really leaning toward the Miller machine, because it's robust, simple, and reliable, but the combination of hi current overhead for the 180SD and a really good price and reputation swayed me over to the Thermal Arc camp.

I let you all know how it's working out, AFTER I run a couple hundred Oxy Acetylene beads to get my "touch" back. The last time I held a torch or a stinger was in 1991 under some M113 APC's, so I need a little "re-tooling" before I'll be showing off any work.

Be safe,

[deere_x475guy]

Well I plan on getting my tig machine in the fall. Maybe Miller will have somthing with less current draw by then. Thats been my hold back on getting the 180SD also.

Come on Miller...you going to make be buy something else this time????


Bob

[Hobart Expert Rock]

DEERE_X475 GUY...........BOB.............ALL INFO THIS STRING HAS BEEN COPIED AND PASTED TO APPROPRIATE FOLKS.........WE HAVE NOTICED AND HAVE TAKEN NOTE........... MANY OTHER FOLKS ARE WATCHING AND TAKEING NOTES................. ..........REMEMBER I KEEP TELLING YOU GUYS VICE PRESIDENTS ARE WATCHING, ENGINEERS ARE WATCHING, MARKETING IS WATCHING, SALES STAFF IS WATCHING, SERVICE TECH'S ARE WATCHING, WELD ENGINEERS ARE WATCHING, TIG ENGINEERS ARE WATCHING...............BUSINESS UNIT MANAGERS ARE WATCHING...........

REMEMBER WE LEARN ALSO AS DOES THE CUSTOMERS....... WE HAVE AND WILL TAKE NOTICE..............AND I LEFT DAVE (AT TIG) A DETAILED VOICE MESSAGE HE IS TRAVELING CURRENTLY TODAY........... .......... WERE LOOKING.....................ROCK.....
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[deere_x475guy]

I am ready to field test for you anytime..)))

[Hobart Expert Rock]

DEERE_X475...........THANKS FOR VOLUNTEERING......WE (ALL OF US) WILL KEEP YOU IN MIND..................ROCK...............
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