Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

econotig

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • econotig

    Has anyone used econotig to weld thin (.035) wall 4130 tubing. The specs for this machine show minimum output as 30 amps in DC mode. I am concerned that this may be to high for thin steel. All comments appreciated.

    Ed.

  • #2
    HI ED2....... YES 30 AMPS IS AS LOW AS THE ECONOTIG GOES. THERE ARE OTHERS THAT WILL GO LOWER MAXSTAR 140 GOES FROM 5-110 AMPS ON 115 VOLTS, MAXSTAR 200 GO FROM 1 TO 200 AMPS IN 115 VOLT THRU 460 VOLTS, SYNCROWAVE 180 SD IS 10-180 AMPS IN 208-230 VOLTS...... THE MAXSTARS'S ARE INVERTERS (NEWER TECHNOLOGY) AND THE ECONOTIG AND SYNCROWAVE ARE OLDER TECHNOLOGY.......... YOUR CHOICE YOUR CALL YOUR MONEY......... NOW YOU HAVE SOME INFO THE DECISION IS YOURS...... HAVE FUN WITH IT...........ROCK
    [email protected]

    Comment


    • #3
      Ed to answer your question. 30 amps will be too high to weld the .o35 tubing. I believe you will need to go down to atlest 10 amp or lower to weld this without burn through.
      Thanks
      Dave Evans

      Comment


      • #4
        on this same subject, i have been told you can put a resistor in series between the work cable and the workpiece to lower the operating amperage. i have never done this but always wondered if it would work. has anybody ever tried this? chip.
        chip

        Comment


        • #5
          I use a hand amptrol to weld .035 4130 tubing so I don't know exactly what the working amps are. I'll get someone to watch the readout while i'm welding and get back to you. Scott.
          MM250X w/ 30A Spoolgun
          Miller Dynasty 200DX w/ watercooled CK20
          Thermal Arc 140 PeeWee
          MM135
          Victor J-28

          Comment


          • #6
            Resister

            I haven't tried this, just an idea.

            You can make a test variable resister out of a strip 1/16*1/2 by 6 foot steel.

            Grab with work clamps along the length of the strip to adjust amperage flow. Make note of the lenght of strip needed to reduce amperage.

            Take this length of steel strip and wrap around a non-conductive tube to make it compact and connect it inline whenever you need the lower amperage. I saw inline connectors for welding in the Grizzly catalog.

            http://www.grizzly.com/products/item...425438&DS_ID=1


            Since this has not been tried yet, be sure the cylinder doesn't get too hot if it gets warm at all. If it does, may need to use 3/32 steel strip instead.

            If you plan on using it for AC welding, keep in mind that the coil you have created might react differently than on DC. If it doesn't work properly, another one may need to be made for AC only.

            Anyone think this might work?
            It's not an optical illusion...it just looks like one

            Comment


            • #7
              WELL.......TO BE HONEST.......I'M GOING TO ANSWER IT THIS WAY.......FOR AWHILE,..... I ONCE DEALT WITH A MAN WHO WAS BRAKEING HIS DIESEL IN BY RUNNING HIS WELDING LEADS 100' IN A 55 GALLON STEEL DRUM FILLED WITH WATER.......ALMOST WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT........THE MACHINE FAILED DUE TO THE WORK CAPABILITY.......IN OTHER WARDS THE DUTY CYCLE WAS EXCEEDED AND THE WINDINGS MELTED DOWN...... HE WAS QUITE IRRATE THAT WE WOULDN'T COVER IT UNDER WARRANTY............... HE NEXT TRIED TO TELL US THAT SOMEONE HERE TOLD HIM TO DO IT....... NO WAY......... IT MIGHT WORK FOR A BIT, BUT THE DUTY CYCLE WILL BE EXCEEDED AND FAIL THE MACHINE............THE RESISTOR YOUR TALKING ABOUT IS A BIG LOAD ON THE MACHINE SAME AS THE LEADS COILED TOGETHER IN A BARRELL OF WATER, YOUR STILL LOADING THE MACHINE DOWN AND IT WILL FAIL AFTER AWHILE....... NO DUTY CYCLE PROTECTION...... YOUR CALL........ I KEEP COMMING BACK TO THE SAFETY THING......BE SAFE OUT THERE...........ROCK
              [email protected][COLOR=crimson]

              Comment


              • #8
                I didn't mean in parrallel which would toast the welder and maybe weldor*.

                The resister is in series limiting the current, not shorting it out.

                I yield to the higher powers anyway. It was just a thought.
                It's not an optical illusion...it just looks like one

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't think putting a resistor in line will lower the current.

                  If I understand the concept, it is going to be pretty difficult to limit the current of a Constant Current machine like a stick or TIG welder. The machine will be compensating for the change in voltage by increasing output current.

                  Is this correct?
                  Bill C
                  "The more I learn about welding the more I find there is to learn..."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    after looking at all the posts i belive what Rock is saying makes a lot of sense. it might work but it's not too healthy for the power supply.[i hate the smell of transformer meltdown.]
                    wow, that diesel welder is a pretty amazing story! interesting safety issue too. guess i won't heat up my bathwater with my SAM400. chip
                    chip

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes, this is correct BillC. In a constant current power source, the output impedance (resistance if you will), is infinite: so no matter what the load resistance is, even a dead short, the current remains constant. If you assumed 25 arc volts, a constant current setting of 30A, and you wanted to obtain 10A at your TIG torch, you would have to put a resistor in parallel to your output leads. That resistor would have to be equal to 25V/20A=1.25 ohms. The power dissipated by that resistor would be 500W, and trust me, it would get pretty hot. And as ROCK stated, this would burden your welder, and might force it into early retirement...

                      Regards,

                      Philippe
                      Last edited by Phil; 09-25-2002, 02:39 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Why is everybody assuming the resister was in parallel with the welding leads? I never said parallel. That would be dangerous.

                        I said Series. The current would decrease if there isn't an active current regulating circuit in the welder. Possibly an inverter type would have a current regulator circuit.

                        Maybe an explaination of a series circuit would help clear things up.
                        Amperage coming out of the negative lead from the welder goes thru the resister, than thru the Arc, than back into the positive side of the welder.

                        Thanks for the brainstorming!
                        It's not an optical illusion...it just looks like one

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          mo input

                          Ed2,

                          (remember Ed2, he started this thread)

                          The bad news seems to be you can not easily do thin material with that many amps and that machine won't easily do fewer amps.

                          As a practing electronic engineer: I think Phil is right. If this constant current case (which I think this is) the machine will continue to deliver 30A reguardless of the load it sees. That 30A will continue to make same energy and heat (too much) to the work reguardless of series resistance. When the resistance is added, the machine will raise the voltage to keep the 30A flowing. Same heat and energy to the work piece, but now also making heat in the added resistance. (I think I see that thin metal strap starting to glow). This could double (or triple or more) the energy the machine is delivering, with the extra diverted to the resistance ... always same amount to the work.

                          As is, the machine will keep on making the 30A no matter what. To reduce the amount delivered to the work would require a parallel diversion of part of the current. In the absurd, if you could run two torches in parallel, and keep the arc lengths equal, half the current would go to each .... Not recommended.

                          Good news, seems "Hey Dude, your getting a Dell (another welder for sheet metal)".

                          Theoretically, a circuit modification inside the welder could modify the amount of current it tries to maintain for each knob setting. Clearly would void a warranty, and not something to be attempted by less than a seasoned electronic engineer, with specific experience in power circuits.

                          Al T.'s concept of adding series resistance IS very interesting for NON-constant current machines. I do believe it may well work for NON-constant current welders.

                          Bob

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thankyou Bob, your right.

                            That's the world I am from also and I thought is was worth mentioning the series resister since we discuss all types of idea's.

                            Right or wrong doesn't matter, all idea's have their merits and drawbacks. I believe the only wrong question or idea is the one that's never asked or talked about.

                            Thanks guys, I'll be quiet now.
                            It's not an optical illusion...it just looks like one

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              HEY YOU FOLKS HAVE HAD AN INTERESTING TIME WITH THIS HAVEN'T YOU........ ONE SENTANCE WILL EXPLAIN IT I THINK IT IS THIS...... YOU MAY FIND A WAY TO REDUCE THE CURRENT AT THE TORCH, BUT BELIEVE ME THE WELDING MACHINE WILL MAINTAIN THE MINIMUM CURRENT OUTPUT TO THE RESISTORS WHICH IS 30 AMPS..........THE TRANSFORMER WILL GET AS HOT AS THE RESISTORS AND.;......... WILL ..... EXPIRE......... NOT RIGHT AWAY BUT AS EVERYONE KNOWS HEAT KILLS ENGINES, TRANSFORMERS, CAPACITORS, HUMANS, ETC........... BY GOLLY I THINK YOU FOLKS GOT IT FIGURED OUT NOW................ TAKE A LOOK A THE VOLT AMP CURCE IN THE MACHINES OWNERS MANUAL........ NOTICE IT GOES TO THE AMPERAGE SET THEN FALLS STRAIGHT DOWN TO THE TRANSITION LINE........THAT TELLS YOU IT MAINTAINS THE CURRENT SETTING BE IT 30 AMPS OR 300 AMPS............. I LOVE ALL THIS INPUT................ THAT IS WHAT THIS FORUM IS ALL ABOUT, GIVES EVERYONE A CHANCE TO CHIME IN.........AND PLEASE REMEMBER THEIR ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS.... ONLY UNANSWERED ONES YOU DON'T ASK........... HAVE FUN AND BE SAFE NOW...................ROCK..... [email protected]

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X