Do you need HF for DC TIG???

[BillC]

I am comparing two DC only inverter welders. From what I can tell, the main differences between the two are High Frequency and an internal gas solenoid...

Is HF valuable for DC TIG? Will a gas valve on the torch cause me any grief?

Bottom line: Do you experienced weldors think it's worth an extra $300 for the HF and an internal gas solenoid?

Thanks!

[Scott V]

It depends how much you use it.My powermig 300 has lift-arc dc only,but it does have a upslope,and gas valve built in.You can get used to the manual valve pretty easy.I only use a gas valve to shut off the gas for when I use the mig gun.It's the one I have so I used it.That way I keep everything hooked up at once.In my Thermal-arc I have lift,and hi freq,and upslope/downslope for use with a button control.If the machine with hi freq has upslope/downslope go that way for sure.It will keep your tungsten much cleaner.Bill what two machines are you looking at?I would grab the one with hi freq start every time if I had pick.I do know where there is a real nice brand new Esab 160 i dc mig stick for $650,but it is just the machine.Nothing else.These ones are very nice low amp machines that are made in the usa.It would probably cost another $350 to setup though.It is probably their very best dc welder.Bicycle builders were buying them like crazy.You have to look around at their site to find it.It will not let me show you the welder.It's a piss poor web-site,but great little welder.

http://www.esabna.com/main.cfm?category=03&pageId=../html/products.cfm&category_desc=Products

[Dan]

Bill

I would spend an extra $300 for a high freq start over a lift arc start. Having a gas valve on the torch really doesn t bother me that much. However, it is nice not having to worry about manually turning the gas on and off.

If I remember right at your local welding supply stores you have idiots for saleman. However, somehow you need to personally test both types of arc start. Any TIG machines at work that you could try?

[BillC]

Thanks Scott and Dan,

I am looking at the Maxstar 200 STR and 200 DX. I looked at the ESAB site at the 161 you referred to. You are correct, the site is tough and there is little information that I can find.

I do have access to TIG machines at school, but I don't know how to TIG (yet). All the TIG machines near me at work are 20 years old, so I don't think they have lift arc. All the Syncrowaves are at Central Shops on the other aide of property.

Thanks again!

[Guest]

IMHO. Bill, if you can get a built in solenoid, and lift-arc that is all you would need. Myself, I would go for the HF and solenoid. They do have advantages.

I don't like anything extra on the torch handle to get in the way. There are times when I choke up on the torch and times when I hold the torch at the very end...so to have something on the torch like a valve or rheostat, is not my preference. However there are also times when a rheostat on the torch is handy.

[Dan]

Originally posted by BillC
Thanks Scott and Dan,

I am looking at the Maxstar 200 STR and 200 DX. I looked at the ESAB site at the 161 you referred to. You are correct, the site is tough and there is little information that I can find.

I do have access to TIG machines at school, but I don't know how to TIG (yet). All the TIG machines near me at work are 20 years old, so I don't think they have lift arc. All the Syncrowaves are at Central Shops on the other aide of property.

Thanks again!

Bill

If the machines at school have hi freq arc start and lift arc start ask your instructor to demo both, and then also try them yourself. After all Scott and I can state that we prefer hi freq but this doesn t mean you will. however, I suspect you will probably prefer the Hi freq too. At work we have a Lincoln Squarewave 175 which is a high freq arc start, and a Thermal Arc Pee Wee 160 which is a lift arc start machine. All together I work with nine guys and they all prefer the high freq arc start too. No matter what I still say you need to try it yourself, so that you are never questioning your final decision on a machine.

[rangerod]

HF Tig

Bill C

I would go with the HF setup any day of the week if I had the choice. Once you start tig welding you will know what I mean. I have the setup that Scott V has on his Power MIG 300 (TIG) the only difference is my torch does not have the gas valve on it I prefer a torch without one. At work all the tig machines have HF on them. I am at a disadvantage as far as inverters go I have not had the oppotunity to try one yet, maybe I shouldn't try one because I just purchased a transformer type machine Hope this helps

[Scott V]

Bill,I was talking about the 160 i ,and not the 161 ac/dc.The 160 is a real high quality dc inverter made here,and the 161 is made in Sweden.

Rangerod,mine does not have a valve on it now.I changed it to my fancy one off my Thermal.It's going back on the the Thermal pretty quick.It has Hi freq.

Rocky D,did you know that with lift-arc,and a button with the powermig 300,and the Esab 260,it has a foldback current when you push the torch close to the work.It's a way to control the current for pipe welding.It's a pretty slick setup.I couldn't figure out why it was pulsing.

[BillC]

Originally posted by Scott V
Bill,I was talking about the 160 i ,and not the 161 ac/dc.The 160 is a real high quality dc inverter made here,and the 161 is made in Sweden.

Scott,

I meant the 160i, I just said it wrong. DC only with the controls and connectors on the side of the case, right?

Bill

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HI BILL.............. I PERSONALLY PREFER ON MY TIGWAVE 250.... IT HAS HF........... AND IT HAS A BUILT IN GAS VALVE....... I USE IT FOR STAINLESS, ALUMINUM, MILD STEEL, ETC......... WE HAVE HAD IT SINCE NEW IN 1982 AND USE IT QUITE OFTEN......... MY BROTHERS MORE THAN ME THOUGH.......... NOW I AM FROM OLD SCHOOL AND LIKE A FOOT PEDAL AND A CLEAN HANDLED TORCH... BUT I'VE USED BOTH.......... SO THAT IS MY 2 CENTS WORTH........ THE TIGWAVE IS AD/DC........ WE AT ONE TIME OWNED A EXCEL-ARC 8065 WITH LIFT ARC AND IT WORKED FINE ALSO.......... BUT MY GUN SMITH BOUGHT IT.............. HAVE YOU MADE UP YOUR MIND YET............... ...........?...........ROCK.......
[email protected]

[Scott V]

Originally posted by BillC


Scott,

I meant the 160i, I just said it wrong. DC only with the controls and connectors on the side of the case, right?

Bill

Bill,that is right.Did you see the 180 ac/dc double inverter?It is real spendy,and not all that great.You have to weave though every welding machines makers lineup to weed out the lemons.They all build them.Just some more than others.