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**cope** · 03-29-2003, 06:08 PM

The Dialarc is an industrial machine whereas the Thunderbolt is a small shop/home/farm machine. Look at the weight; the Dialarc is heavy. Also has a steep amperage requirement, but the 300 Thunderbolt may not be far behind. The Dialarc is overkill for home shop use, but if money is no object...

**Sberry** · 03-29-2003, 06:22 PM

I tend to agree there and after you have a wire feeder the stick machine tends to take a back seat.

**Henro** · 03-29-2003, 07:53 PM

Cope and Sberry27,

Thanks for the input.

Both of these units have the same input amp requirements, if you put the power factor correction capacitors on the Dialarc...

There must be some difference between them in use I suspect. The Dialarc weighs a lot more than the Thunderbolt. Extra iron/windings perhaps? Does this in the end result in a more stable arc? Or is it simply that more mass gives a greater duty cycle, which probably means nothing to the home shop user.

It would not make good sense to pay more for something that is a chore to move if it did not perform better in some way.

Sberry27 points out: "...after you have a wire feeder the stick machine tends to take a back seat."

Considering this comment, let me confuse the issue with an add on:

I picked the 300 amp stick welders because I thought it might be useful to have that extra capacity for future [unknown] needs.

Would it make more sense for me to consider the Maxstar 140 STR???? The Maxstar 140 would give me 100 amps at 100 percent duty cycle and 140 amps at about 30 percent. I know there would be no AC side there. And the capacity is less than half the Thunderbold or Dialarc.

But, the Maxstar 140 would be a good unit to have in the back seat...literally! Once I have a MIG and a TIG, the little 140 STR might really compliment them and be more useful than the Dialarc, which would due to its weight certainly would stay in the shop corner.

I know these are pretty simple questions...sort of like "what tractor should I buy...duh!"

But I do need help in this decision...later I will know the answers...but as a new guy I don't. I do know it pays to ask those with experience though, when you have the opportunity to do so...That's why I'm here!

I REALLY DO appreciate any and all advice! If anyone can add more to this thread please do! I do want to order something ASAP, but want to do it right the first time, if I can.

**chub380** · 03-29-2003, 08:37 PM

Maxstar 140

If you get the Maxstar 140 just get it with the stick/tig setup that is what I did. The little Maxstar is a perfect little stick/tig welder. Just dont be confussed it is not the high end machine the dial arc and thunderbolt are. But as far as portability you cant beat it. Also the duty cycles are very high for such a small machine. Another nice feature about the machine is how you can plug it into 110 or 220 without any internal adjusting. It knows what your feeding it and gives you output accordinglly. I fix tables at our church and 220 is not readilly available being able to plug into 110 is great. As far as being smooth you would not believe it both with stick and tig. Also if you get the stick/tig package you will be more famillar with the tig process when you decide to get your ac tig for alum. Or you could just skip this step and go with a small invertor welder like the Dynasty200 Lincoln205 Thermal arc 185 or htps version. and all ready have your Ac output and still have a small machine. That way you wouldnt be buying doubles and you wouldnt get near as limitted with your stick welding having 200 amps at your disposal. I am not sure about the others but I know you can plug the Dynasty into 110-460. If they would have had the Dynasty 200 3 years ago when I bought my maxstar140 I would have bought the Dynasty200 for sure. I Now have a Dynasty300 for the shop and cant say nothing but good about it. The 200 is just like it only with 200amps instead of 300 But it is also not near as portable as the 200. All that to say this if it was my money I would either buy the Thunderbolt, or go with the total package like one of the 200 amp invertor models we talked about. Just remember the 200 amps with an invertor will let you weld alum somewhere in the 1/4 inch realm, if you need to go thicker/castings ect go with a 300 amp model. I am not saying the 140 would be wasting your money because it is a great machine, but it is also $1000 That is alot to spend if you plan on getting another tig rig in the future which will also be a stick welder. Also the 200 invetors are still portable enough to put in the backseat.Just remember when you buy a tig welder you are also getting a stick welder. Hope this helps Chub Ps. if your looking for a small four wheel drive diesel tractor go with a Kubota ,Now I told you what tractor to buy also. Just kidding there are alot of good ones out there. There just not a Kubota. Ha Ha

**cope** · 03-29-2003, 09:13 PM

Bill, the 300 amp machines are over-kill IMHO, but those were the 2 you asked for a comparison on. Chub has a good idea with the Maxstar 140. The STR kit seems to be the way to go, and 140 amps is plenty stick power for home use. I rarely run my Miller over 110-125.

**Henro** · 03-29-2003, 09:16 PM

Ps. if your looking for a small four wheel drive diesel tractor go with a Kubota ,Now I told you what tractor to buy also. Just kidding...

Chub380,

At the moment I am reading the manuals for these welders on the Miller site...looking at the schematics...and so on.

Had to stop for a moment...to tell you that I have a Kubota B2910 with a backhoe...got it last summer...I think it's harder deciding on my first welder than it was to buy that Tractor!

**Sberry** · 03-29-2003, 09:30 PM

Your church has 240V,, ha But for me thats not a concern and I dont like welding from 120V power supply unless it was an absolute national security crisis. But, I can tell you for a fact that a 140A DC machine will do the job but the 200 would certainly be better. I have a little Lincoln that is about 400$ or so and I am sure Miller has something like it and they burn 1/8th Lo-Hi well enough and I have used a lot of 3/32 also which is great for light stuff up to 1/4th and goes a long way. 10# of that will do a lot of work. In a small machine I like AC/DC and AC for only one reason. That is to weld nickel on cast. Other than that its useless. Now, if there are other machines that could be better and be able to weld alum and all,,, all the better. A machine that would give 200A of DC would certainly give plenty for sticks for home or farm use. Once you have a feeder those sticks will be a thing of the past.

**chub380** · 03-30-2003, 11:17 AM

Never said the church did not have 220 I said it is not available at the area where the tables have to get fixed, It would be a real pain to take them to the nearest 220 outlet. Besides the metal is so thin on the legs 110 input is more than enough to get rated output [100amps] which I never use on the tables with the small 3/32 rods I use.Chub

**Scott V** · 03-30-2003, 12:39 PM

Chub380,those maxstars with 120 volt operation is kind of like having a 120 wire that will also work with 240 for thicker type metal.Really handy to have.Also some of the Thermal tigs like the pee wee have great arcs to them,and I am sure the little Maxstars are the same.So when you say they are not to be confused with a some other hi quality machines,they have a hi quality smooth dc arc to them,so to me that make them hi quality.

**chub380** · 03-30-2003, 03:01 PM

Hi Scott, I sorry if I was confussing, I never meant to say the arc was not high quality,what I said was not to confuse the 140 to a dial arc or thunderbolt300 for its high end performance meaning amperage,not talking about arc quality, The arc quality in the 140's range far surpasses any dialarc or thunderbolt I have ever used. Chub Ps. to change imput voltage all you do is change the jumper on the cord on 110 you get 100amps[80amp 100%duty] 220 gives you 140amps[100amps 100%duty]machine links it up inside

**Hobart Expert Rock** · 03-31-2003, 08:53 AM

HENRO.............WELL SIR WHAT DID YOU FINALLY DECIDE UPON.. DID YOU GET THE T-BOLT, DIAL-ARC, OR DID YOU GET THE 140STR.......INQUIREING MINDS WANT TO KNOW.......AND WHY DID YOU DECIDE ON WHAT YOU DID,.,.........THANKS..........ROCK
[email protected]

**Henro** · 03-31-2003, 10:31 AM

HENRO.............WELL SIR WHAT DID YOU FINALLY DECIDE UPON.. ???

A short question...leads to a loooooonnnnggggg answer...

In my continuing education welding class I have been using a Dialarc. It is one with tig capability, but I can't remember the model number...only doing basic stick leaning anyway...

Yesterday I decided to go with the Thunderbolt XL 300/200 ac/dc. Today I decided to hold off another day before totally deciding on the Thunderbolt over the Maxstar 140 str. Am I the only one that suffers from such "over think?"

The problem is that now being retired, my approach to buying things like this has been drifting towards buying something to use for the rest of my life, differing from the previous approach of buying for now with the expectation of upgrading later. Not sure if that makes sense or not...

And even though I am new to this, it is something I wanted to do for a long time...and I plan on having several welders when it is all over. So what I buy now should, if possible, compliment the MIG and TIG units that are on the list.

Right now I "need" a stick welder to practice with, since I am taking a stick welding class. My original thought was to by a tig unit right off the bat, since they have stick capability. I beat that to death and it came down to either the Thermal Arc prowave 185 [ thanks for the help on that, aweaver] or the Dynasty 200dx. But the Dynasty is so new...and then there are those questions mentioned in the other thread...so it seemed to make more sense at the moment to buy a stick machine now. And to go for the more expensive machines later.

My logic for deciding on the Thunderbolt XL was that it would have a higher capacity than the tig unit I would end up getting, and therefore compliment the tig and mig units in the end. Now I don't know that I need that extra capacity, but just feel it would be nice to have in my back pocket.

Also the Thunderbolt would be a little more portable than the Dialarc...and I am only a hobbiest...so the dialarc has been eliminated. Has to be overkill for my needs.

So I have now stepped back for a day to evaluate if I REALLY need that extra capacity the thunderbolt xl 300/200 offers. And I am trying to balance it against the portability of the Maxstar 140str. The 140str actually has a duty rating of 100 amps dc while the thunderbolt has 90 amps, both at 100% duty cycle.

I think the maxium 140 amps of the 140str might be enough for my needs...especially as I don't have any real "needs" with respect to a welder presently, except for perhaps welding some hooks on my tractor loader bucket, or repairing a weld on a back blade that is 1/4 inch steel. I realize the Maxstar does not offer AC Capability.

BUT... I keep thinking that if I buy the Maxstar 140STR when it is all over I will have duplication, in that the tig I buy will end up having a range of capability that extends on both sides of the 140str. Whereas the thunderbolt xl would offer something that the tig unit didn't have, a higher ampere rating if for some reason I might need it. And my common sense tells me I will probably not need that extra amp rating of the thunderbolt xl...Can you see the way my mind is twisting this decision???

This is NOT a money decision. Our kids are grown and college costs are behind us. We don't have money to burn, but we do have money to spend the right way, within limits...

If anyone managed to read this far, let me ask...thunderbolt xl or Maxstar 140str? If you were me [welding newbie, not even wet behind the ears yet] which would you buy as the fist welder?

I this place! You guys are really helpful and so full of knowledge! Thanks for your advice!

**Hobart Expert Rock** · 03-31-2003, 11:19 AM

BILL..............WELL SIR NO MATTER WHAT YOUR DECISION IS I ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO THE RESEARCH, ASK THE QUESTIONS, TALK TO YOUR INSTRUCTOR, TALK TO YOUR LOCAL WELDING SHOP, TALK TO YOUR LOCAL DISTRIBUTOR............. JUST KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS............. DO THE RESEARCH "YOU" WILL MAKE THE CORRECT DECISION............. HAVE YOU TRIED TO DO A SEARCH QUESTION ON THIS SITE........... LOOK AT HOW MUCH TROUBLE BOB HAD DECIDING ON THE PLASMA CUTTERS.......... HAHAHA.........

..........THEN DID A 180 DEGREE ON US AND DECIDED TO PURCHASE SOMETHING ELSE......... THAT IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT..........AH THE THOUGHT PROCESS...........MANY HAVE THIS TOUGH DECISION TO MAKE.........AND YOUR NOT ALONE.........ENJOY THE DECISION.............AND GOOD LUCK.......

ROCK.........[email protected]

**deere_x475guy** · 03-31-2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by Hobart Expert Rock
BILL..............WELL SIR NO MATTER WHAT YOUR DECISION IS I ENCOURAGE YOU TO DO THE RESEARCH, ASK THE QUESTIONS, TALK TO YOUR INSTRUCTOR, TALK TO YOUR LOCAL WELDING SHOP, TALK TO YOUR LOCAL DISTRIBUTOR............. JUST KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS............. DO THE RESEARCH "YOU" WILL MAKE THE CORRECT DECISION............. HAVE YOU TRIED TO DO A SEARCH QUESTION ON THIS SITE........... LOOK AT HOW MUCH TROUBLE BOB HAD DECIDING ON THE PLASMA CUTTERS.......... HAHAHA......... ..........THEN DID A 180 DEGREE ON US AND DECIDED TO PURCHASE SOMETHING ELSE......... THAT IS WHAT IT IS ALL ABOUT..........AH THE THOUGHT PROCESS...........MANYU HAVE THIS TOUGH DECISION TO MAKE.........AND YOUR NOT ALONE.........ENJOY THE DECISION.............AND GOOD LUCK....... ROCK.........[email protected]

Wait....180??? I am getting the Miller 625....or did you mean I went from a 375 to 625????

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Thunderbolt XL VS Dialarc ???

Thunderbolt XL VS Dialarc ???

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