Champion 10000

[Hobart Expert Rock]

OK FOLKS...........ON OCCASSION I ASK QUESTIONS....... I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS WHAT EVERYONE THINKS OF THIS UNIT. LET'S COMPARE IT TO ANY MACHINE YOU WOULD LIKE TO COMPARE IT TO...............IN OTHERWARDS WE'RE LOOKING FOR INPUT BE IT GOOD OR BAD.............OPEN TOPIC.................. .......LET THE DISCUSSION'S BEGIN....................... ...........................ROCK
[email protected]

[Scott V]

You asked for it!

Rock,lets try this one,the Lincoln 250 ranger with the same engine as the Champion.The 20.5 horse onan.It only peaks at 9000 watts.Its price is under $2700.00 sometimes if you look.This is a dated specs from this website,because they have changed a couple of things.These welder flat out welds nice,Great lift arc dc tig,and inductace control which is real nice to have.Also inclosed sheetmetal.Also one more thing it is a nice pretty red,although the white doesn't look bad.

http://www.jandrweldingsupply.com/store/Ranger250.html

[Hobart Expert Rock]

SCOTT.............THE SITE ONLY SAYS 8000 WATTS...........ROCK
[email protected]

[Scott V]

Rock,even the Lincoln website has that,But I looked at one when I bought my 305G Ranger.It was 8500 with a peak of 9000.My ranger is 9500/10,000 peak.The 250 has the same engine as the 250 Bobcat,and 301g Trailblazer with the 20.5 hp Onan.

[Franz]

Well guys, as an old fart who has been around the world makin some good money from generators, I'll make a statement that will probably get some controversy going.
Every generator manufacturer, with the exception of GENECRAP, overbuilds the generator end of the machine, so the engine will stall before the generator gets hurt by the load.
The "Peak ratings" started to appear about 10 years back, with the arrival in the market of the homeowner genset market, and are a lot like the phoney horsepower ratings on air compressor motors. The way many manufacturers are acheiving the rating is pure bullcrap.
The market has shifted to light weight machines that rely on the engine's capability to respond to load, rather than build a machine with heavy rotating mass that can actually handle a load change, and maintain frequency stability.
Far more important in the overall life of any genset is how fast it turns, because a motor running at 3600 rpm wears itself out long before one turning 1800 rpm.
I've got 3 7.5kva machines made in the 1950s, that will handle full load all day long, and will do it without any difficulty. I have done a little experimenting, side by side tests with new machines, and the old girls can handle 9kva of load coming on with a barely noticible change in RPM. The new machines STALL under the same test loading, because they don't have the rotating mass.

[Scott V]

Franz I can tell you one thing your machine cannot cv mig or tig like the new machines period.Stick welding it might but not even close to the arc of new ones in the other processes.It says on them welder generator,not generator welder.Also generators really have a hard time comparing to Bonneville dam we are hooked up to here.Thats some rotating mass.

[Sberry]

I have to tend to agree with Franz here to some extent. I been kicking around the weolding world for a while too and I find that most people tend to over buy thinking of the future needs and I did that when I started out too. They buy lots of the features they never use. I know some of you are in and tend to have an interest weldings higher tech side and dwell on new processes. Most of the work is wirefeeds in the shop and sticks on the road. If I planned on specializing I would buy a machine that did that in addition to one that makes regular sparks and some AC power. The skill and money still tends to be in stick welding most of the time and when its other proccesses its mostly working for someone that is going to provide equipment. (example, union construction work) I guess anymore I dont tend to think of welding in as an end to itself, actually I hardly think about it at all. My focus is on fab, design and for a lack of a better word mechanic. The weld is just a matter of fact and I guess I dont spend much time on machines and how if I had a different model I could do it better untill I have something that actually demands it.

[Will]

Champ 10000

Rock,
I looked at the Champ 10000 about 3 years ago when I bought my Champ 16. They were both available at that time. I bought the Champ 16 because it looked like more machine for the money. They were both selling at the same price...about $2500. The Champ 16 has DC and AC, the 10000 has only DC.
The 16 has both CC and CV, the 10000 has only CC.
The 16 has 100% duty cycle at the full 225 amp weld output, the 10000 has 100% at 170 amps and less than 100% at full output. The 16 has 100% duty cycle for the full output of the generator (8000 watts), the 10000 has less than 100% duty cycle at the full generator output. Also the Champ 16 weighs about 130 pounds more than the 10000 (more copper than aluminum?)

So, as you say Rock, my money my choice....

I would like to see the machines in this price class have both CC and CV, both AC and DC, and have a standard 14 pin remote available, to make TIG easier. I would also like to see reasonably priced accessories to add wire feed (the new 3045FC covers this), a gas solenoid kit for TIG, and maybe a weatherproof HF box sized for the welder. It would be nice to have things like a TIG torch, remote pedal, and gas solenoid packed together in an accessory kit.

Also, a lot of us buy these to use as backups during a power outage. It would be nice to have a larger gas tank(10 or 12 hours at 75% output), and a plug and cord set available as an accessory.

Do all of that, and keep the price reasonable, and you will sell a lot of them Rock! I might even trade up!

[Scott V]

Do all that,and I might trade down!

[RobertEarl]

First, thanks for having this sight, lots of good info here.
I looked at the Champ 10000 up close at Tractor Supply. Honestly, if it weighed 100 pounds less and was full 200 amps, 100% duty cycle, then I would have gotten it, even at the price they were asking. When did Miller/Hobart quit using Tecumseh engines? Our Miller welder with Tecumseh engine has been very reliable and starts every time. I am looking for another small welder and don't care if it puts out a/c or d/c as long as it gets hot enough to melt steel . I don't know how to Tig or Mig but I weld outdoors mostly so it's not something I would ever have much use for anyway, but who knows down the line maybe I will learn. The big 10,000 watt generator is nice but for my needs about 5,500 watts is more than enough to run tools when working or to keep the deer meat froze in case the lights go out at home. I think I'm not alone in that regard because look at how many 4,000-5,500 watt generators Coleman and others have sold over the years.
Why doesn't Hobart make a tractor PTO driven generator/welder? There is one in the Northern Tool catalogue that is 12kW for $999. Even my little 40 hp Ford 800 tractor would spin it and then some. It is not a welder but just has a 50 amp welder recepticle. Hobart should sell a machine like that that both welds and generates. Also put a cord on it so you can just plug it into the wall back at the house like a buzz box and not have to run it from the tractor when you are at home.

[Sberry]

yes, they should put a cord on the generator so they can plug it in the wall.

Ok, that wasnt funny,, I know its late.