Still too much spatter...

[bluesman2a]

OK, here's the deal, got a Miller 251, running some no-name ER70S-6 with 75/25 on 3/16 to 1/4" mild steel. I've previously talked with Dan and tried all the stuff he's recommended here:

http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=642&highlight=ER70S6

I'm SURE it's not his advice.

I'm SURE it's not my technique, I'm getting good sound and a decent bead, but the spatter is ALL OVER the place.

The next items on my hit list are machine setup, and filler material.

I've checked polarity and it is set up as it's supposed to be, per directions. Anything else I should double check with the machine? Gas feed, or anything like that?

I also ordered some Hobart .35 ER70S-6 to see if that's the problem. Does anybody have a brand of .35 ER70S-6 or similar wire for the application that they would PARTICULARLY recommend for a clean weld?

I'm getting decent beads, but this spatter is just embarrasing... And it's driving me NUTS!

[Dan]

Ok we ll assume that your stickout is between a 1/4" and 1/2" since you stated your technique is proper. After this parameters would be the next item to attack. In short circuit transfer excessive spatter is usually created by to high of a voltage setting for the wire speed or the opposite, which is to high of a wire speed for the voltage setting. So, before we go any further then this what are the voltage and wire speed setting(s) that you have been using?

[bluesman2a]

Well, on the 3/16, I was following the recommended settings on the inside of the hood.

25-30 CFH gas, 20.5 Volts and 245 wire speed.

On the 1/4" I believe it was:
25-30 CFH gas, 21.5V and 380 wire speed.

These are from memory, but like I said, they came straight off the inside cover of the machine. They gave good "frying bacon" sound, and a decent bead.

I also tried bracketing it a bit on either side, but it didn't seem to help.

[MikeG]

Bluesman2,
Wire quality does have an effect on spatter. I would definitely try a good AWS standard wire by one of the better known companies the manufacture welding wire. I believe it's been mentioned already, but also try backing off the wire speed, only adjust the wire feed speed. If that does not cause the spatter to disipate some, then go back to your original settings and adjust voltage only, first turn it up a small bit and if that does not help back it down a very little from original setting.

MikeG

[MikeG]

Bluesman,
At 1/4" mild steel using 75/25 gas .035 hard wire you should have the machine set at 18volts - 310IPM. At 3/16" 17v-280IPM.
MikeG

[Doug]

Hi bluesman, What does your material look like? Is it rusted painted oily etc. Your material needs to be clean before welding. Yes it could also be the wire. The chart on the side of the unit is a good beginning point your wire feed speed could be too high or your voltage.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

BLUESMAN2..............AH 2 MORE SECRET AGENTS MIKEG AND DOUG BOTH WORK AT LIGHT INDUSTRIAL WHERE THE MACHINE IS MANUFACTURED..............BOTH QUITE COMPETANT.............YOUR IN GOOD HANDS........................ ....................ROCK
[email protected]

[bluesman2a]

Thanks Rock.... BTW, the issue on the plasma turned out to be a loose fitting. Got that resolved and it's all good now.

I'll try to get some pics tonight, and play some more, with the settings suggested here.

[Mark Whiddon]

This may or maynot apply, but what does your metal transfer actually look like? With my HH175 .035 solid wire tends to make a more globular type of transfer (at least with the wire I had). You can actually see the drops of metal go into the weld. I noticed that I had much more spatter with that weld. I changed to .030 wire (still er70 s6)and it seemed to change the transfer of the metal into a more steady stream. THis created much less spatter for me. Whether it was just a matter of fine tuning the machine, or different wire, or just the difference in diameterI don't know. What I do know is my welds now have less spatter.

[Cowboy]

still to much spatter

Bluesman

I just went out and tried my mm251 with 035 solid wire on 1/4" flat stock. I tried your 21.5 V -380 ipm, then what MikeG suggested 18V-310ipm and then what it said on the lid of my machine, 19V-320ipm, none had any spatter but I liked 19V-320ipm the best. Only differance I could see was the profile of the bead.
Do you have gauges or a flowmeter on your bottles. I have Smith gauges and I run my gas, (75/25), at 15cfh. I kept lowering the pressure until I could see a differance. 15 cfh seems to work find in the shop. I don't know how accurate these gauges are??

Hey guys can to high of pressure cause spatter?

I just use Forney ER70S-6 wire that I get at the local Co-Op. Cheap price from what I can see from checking other outfits prices.
Just some info, hope it helps.

[bluesman2a]

didn't get a chance to play last night, but Cowboy, I'll try your settings too and see what they get me.

[ZACHV]

Originally posted by Mark Whiddon
This may or maynot apply, but what does your metal transfer actually look like? With my HH175 .035 solid wire tends to make a more globular type of transfer (at least with the wire I had). You can actually see the drops of metal go into the weld. I noticed that I had much more spatter with that weld. I changed to .030 wire (still er70 s6)and it seemed to change the transfer of the metal into a more steady stream. THis created much less spatter for me. Whether it was just a matter of fine tuning the machine, or different wire, or just the difference in diameterI don't know. What I do know is my welds now have less spatter.

I think I saw on here that the HH and MM machines seems to be off one rating on the guides in the cover, meaning that you should set up the machine as if the material was one step thicker. If that is so then you may have had too much amperage and/or too little wire speed for the given amperage?? I for sure may not be the person to be giving advice on such a topic, but I hope it may help out.

[Dan]

Seems like everyone except me has a MM251. Anyway, Bluesman2a on my 1/2 hour lunch break last night at work I took the time to run a few quick samples on so 1/4" mildsteel with an .035 e70S-6 and C25. Now first of all please remember that we only have an older MM 250 and your MM 251 is going to be a much better machine that probably produces a softer arc. Anyway, I was just wanting to find some parameters quickly that would get you in the ball park so that you could fine tune from there. Well, the first thing that I realized was the my normal settings of 22 to 24 load volts and around 360 on the wirespeed is probably more than you want to deal with in rate of travel, and besides the fact that these voltage settings put you into globular transfer which is going to produce some spatter no matter what. Generally though I spray the metal with anti spatter so that spatter sticking to the basemetal isn t normally an issue. So, I tried bring the settings down some to see what happens. First off I tried Mike G recommendations and on my MM 250 at 18 load volts and 310 IPM on the wire speed all I got was popping, I couldn t get the arc to fire off- too low of a voltage setting for my machine. However, the 18 volts might be fine on your MM 251 after all Mike is a Miller employee so I would assume that he knows the MM 251. So, after this I left the wire at 310 and upped the voltage to 20 volts. This gave me pretty good results. it still needs some fine tuning. However, I ran out of time. So, I would guess that the recommmended setting that is on the chart is pretty close. By the way at the end of my shift I tried breaking one of the joints in the bench vise with a 3 lb hammer and couldn t even get the joint to start to bend, and I was giving quite a bit of effort.

Im posting two pictures the first one is the 20 and 310 settings and the second is 23 volts and 360 IPM which is my normal setting for this machine. There is alot of spatter on the base metal since I didn t waste anti spatter spray on this test.

[Dan]

pic 2

[Hobart Expert Rock]

THANKS DAN...........AND YOU SAID I WAS A NICE GUY FOR GOING OUT OF MY WAY TO HELP............. I DID BUT THAT IS MY JOB........ YOU DID THIS ON YOUR LUNCH 1/2 HOUR BREAK.......... DAN I REALLY APRECIATE IT...............BLUESMAN2.......... I'M GETTING READY TO HEAD TO THE HOUSE HOWEVER I WILL CUT, COPY, AND PAST TO MIKE G...............HE IS A LITTLE MORE THAN A MILLER EMPLOYEE AS IS KEVIN.................... WELL LET'S JUST CALL THEM SECRET AGENTS..................... MOST OF THE PEOPLE ANSWERING QUESTIONS ON HERE ARE ALL MORE THAN JUST EMPLOYEE'S EACH HAS A UNIQUE QUALIFICATION FROM SERVICE TECHNICANS TO VICE PRESIDENTS , TO MARKETING, TO ENGINEERS........... THAT IS WHY I'VE STARTED HAVEING THEM IDENTIFY THEMSELVES. AND BELIEVE ME THEIR ARE MANY.......... YOU WILL SOON BE SEEING MORE THAN JUST 3 EXPERTS UP THERE......... .....ROCK[email protected]