A novice with $2,500 - what to buy???

[Henro]

Hi,

First let me say I am just a beginner....but I do wear bifogals

Always wanted to learn welding so I am in a continuing education class meeting three hours per week. So you can guess where I am coming from after being to three classes. Stick welding, 6010 rod, DC reverse polarity...a real novice, bigtime!

So, I want to buy a welder or two. Most likely first a good stick welder, and later hopefully get into MIG and TIG.

First question is whether I should buy something like the tombstone Lincoln ac/dc for around $400 or so, or sping for something more expensive like the Lincoln Idealarc, that pushes the cost over $1,000 but does come with a TIG option from what I understand, and may also be a better stick welder than the cheaper one.

That would be the start, perhaps to be followed by a plasma cutter...gee that almost spent my funds right there!

If you were retired, in your 50s, buying for hobby purposes [meaning non-business, not model cars ] what would your approach be?

What would you buy first? Last?

And let me answer before I am asked: What do I want to do with this stuff? I do have a tractor and want to weld hooks on the bucket, and repair implements that break...but I am guessing that welders are like most other toys...errr, I mean tools...once you have one, the more reasons you can find for using it!

Hope this question is not too general...best I can do considering where I'm at currently...

Grateful for any thoughts you guys might have!

[ZACHV]

I would think you could get a nice TIG unit that will also do ARC, and then a nice plasma cutter, for right around $2500. I like MIG, just because it is easier for me, but if I could TIG I would probably do most with that.

Here is the TIG machine I'd go with:
180SD

and then get one of these:
Hypertherm 380 for $1000 from Todd at Harris Welding Supplies direct at 1-800-783-8833. I just picked one up from him last week and absolutely love it.

You could have both of them for $2480 to your door by the end of this week!

[Henro]

Thanks Zackv and Aweaver,

I have been trying to read as much of the archives as I can...my head is spinning at the moment!

A combo unit that gives both TIG and SMAW is something I had not thought of...like I said, I'm still getting my feet wet.

I see Aweaver recently walked down the path I am on...

If anyone else has any thoughts please post them! I'm thirsty for alternative ideas that will point me in the right direction.

In the meantime, I will search the archives and post more specific questions if I dream any up.

I know my question is sorta like "What kind of tractor should I buy...?"

Thanks for the advice!

[Franz]

Well, since the new Lincoln promo catalog came Saturday, and I'm still recovering from sticker shock, I'm going to take a different approach here.
FIRST, call the optometrist who made the bifocals, and tell him you're learning to weld, and want to know what the reading part of your prescription translates to in cheap store reading glasses, and go get yourself a couple pair of $5- glasses. You can go NUTS trying to learn welding with bifocals. I've seen experienced weldors get the second half of the way to nuts adjusting to their new bifocals.

Then, I'd start building a relationship with a welding suplier in your area. Find a suplier who will answer the questions you have, and let you try out different machines.

Then, you'll probably find the suplier has trade in machines that you can buy for a lot less money than new ones, and still have money left to pay for consumables, clamps, soapstone and other toys you'll want to have.
Don't buy any Magnetic welding clamp substitutes till you've learned to weld, those suckers will cause problems a new guy diesn't want to contend with.
Since you've now become totally confused with all the machines and toys on the market, buy a Toumbstone, or a Miller adjustable core machine, and learn to weld. An AC machine will make a far better weldor out of a beginner than any DC machine ever will.
As you progress, you will also accumulate "friends" who will need you to bring your machine over to do a little project for them. You can toss a toumbstone into the trunk of their car, not yours cause you'll need to unload it alone when you get home, and go do their project.
I still have the first toumbstone I bought in 1964, and won't ever get rid of it. They come in dang handy for thawing pipes, and you don't need to worry about how that operation will effect your expensive machine.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HENRO..................WELCOME ABOARD................ WELL WHAT KIND OF MACHINES ARE YOU USEING IN YOUR CLASSES.......... THAT WILL GIVE YOU A GENERAL FEEL FOR WHAT IS GOING ON........ I LIKE THE IDEA OF GOING TO YOUR LOCAL WELDING DISTRIBUTOR AND ASKING QUESTIONS......... GET TO KNOW THESE FOLKS MY GUESS IS,... IT IS HARD EARNED CASH........ YOUR GOING TO BE DOING BUSINESS WITH THEM, GO TO ABOUT 3 OR 4 IN YOUR AREA......... THEN PICK THE ONES YOU FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH......... NOW ASK IF YOU CAN TRY SOME OUT.................MIG, STICK, TIG......... TRY THEM ALL INCLUDEING THE INVERTERS................THEN DO THE RESEARCH ASK FOR SPECIFICATION SHEETS, KNOW AND UNDERSTAND DUTY CYCLES... INCOMMING POWER,..........LEARN THE BUZZ WORDS.....GET SOME CHARTS FOR DIFFERENT KINDS OF RODS AND WIRES...........THE ONLY PERSON WHO NEEDS TO LIVE WITH WHAT YOU BUY IS .... YOU..............YOUR ABOUT TO HAVE SOME FUN............. NOW START ENJOYING........ ..........................ROCK
[email protected]

[Henro]

HI,

Thanks for the continuing advice.

So would it make more sense for me to first buy a "low end" AC/DC machine in the under $500 range? Something I could take to a friends place and use to help him out occasionally. That is something I had not thought of...a friend already asked if I could do something for him when he heard that I was getting into welding...

Then later as I get more into it, but something like the tig/arc combo or whatever?

I am thinking that this could make the most sense. I could get something this week or next, that could supplement my welding class experience and give me more time experimenting/learning at home...

I like the idea of having a welder that I would not have to worry about too much just for things like taking it places and banging it around...

Keep the advice coming! It really helps! Really appreciate it!

[Dan]

Bill

for what your wanting to do I think an AC/DC buzzbox would be just fine. Personally though I don t like the Lincoln Tombstone model, because there is about a 10 to 15 amp jump between amperage selections with the selector switch on the front of the machine. My preference is to have a machine that allows you to adjust your amperage one amp at a time from the min to the max of the machine. The Hobart stickmate and the Miller Thunderbolt both have this option. Plus my AC/DC buzzbox is a 250 amp Century and it too adjusts one amp at a time. Also, so you know you can add a TIG torch, bottle of argon, and an argon regulator to this machine an use the DC side to tig weld mild steel, and stainless steel . It not as good as a machine with remote amperage control, but with enough practice you can produce pretty good results.

Now as a supplement to this machine I would add a wirefeed machine like a Hobart Handler 175 or Millermatic 175. These machines make the welding of 1/8" and thinner material much easier

Then since were still under you $2500 dollar budget I d look for a good 4" X 6" metal cutting bandsaw.

These three Items should beable to be found for a combined total of about $1300, which leaves you enough left in your budget for a 27 amp plasma cutter.

Also, if you don t have a drill press sometime you ll probably want to add this too.

Just throwing you some ideas in the end you need to go with what makes you happy.

[DaveD]

Smore things to consider. I'm a home hobbiest/tool junky/hotrodder/woodworker/off roader. Over the years I have learned to not loan tools our or take them over to someone elses house (and don't ever leave them there, its not worth getting mad at a friend when he doesn't treat them the way you do). I prefer everyone to come to my place and bring the beer. I have more toys then all my friends combined (except one close buddy that I'll let borrow anything and he does the same for me). Now if its a farm implement I can understand going to the friends place to work on it.

Got into the metal working area, welding about 2 years ago. Had a AC Buzz box welder for many years though. Did the basics nicely. Sorry I sold it.

My top tools (after all the typical hand power/air tools):
(1)good Milwaukee sawzall with lots and lots of blades( I buy them in packs of 10 or 25). I have even cut a lot of 1/4" plate with it. Wouldn't be without it. I leave it open when friends come over and have a few $1 and a $5 bill in it so they get the hint blades aren't free. Everybody usually chips in a few bucks without even being asked if its an all day job.
(2)decent floor drill press
(3)Lincoln powermig200 (love it)
(4)ESAB handy550 plasma cutter (love it)
(5)40 year old 2HP 220V 150PSI air compressor (finally on its last legs). Going for a 60 gallon upright, 2 stage cast iron, 175 PSI compressor when the old one finally dies.
(6)14" Milwaukee chop saw (Can't cut straight to save its/my life)
(7) various el-cheapo air grinders/sanders
(8) Half dozen carbide burrs from ebay.
(9) about 100A of 220V service to the garage for all the tools
(10) 4" makita grinder
(11) HD 9" old craftsman grinder
(12) Craftsman 6" bench grinder 40 years old and still going strong.

I don't think you could go wrong buying the AC/DC buzz box for about $400 but I'll bet in a year you will also spend $1000 to get the mig too.

Buy Red, Blue, or yellow and you won't go wrong. Stay away from brand x China knockoffs for anything that costs $100 bucks or more. Enjoy it, Don't try to justify it.

[Sberry]

I think I would go for the small ac/dc machine too. I have Lincolns but I think the Miller adjustments are better. Mine has 85 to 95 settings and it really needs abou 88 to be perfect for 3/32 lo/hi. Later a bit ad one of those 200A feeders. They are cheap enough and would run 035 well. I would invest in a feeder way before a tig. 99.5% of the world is steel. In fact the only reason I have stick in the shop is to run nickel once in a while or even a stainless rod and occasionally reach way outside for a rod or 2 on equipment. I could just about get by with the feeder. The tool list can get endless and I would be hard pressed to get along without a torch or a plasma. I buy some new tools every week,,, sometimes each day,, ha They even deliver here.

[morpheus]

Originally posted by Sberry27
I buy some new tools every week,,, sometimes each day,, ha

I like your line of thinking about tools

- jack

[Henro]

Hi again,

Boy I feel like a wisp of smoke in a slow breeze!

Was planning to stop by a couple welding suppliers and see what they got there and talk a bit...but did not get their yesterday.

Anyway, I am still digging and trying to figure what makes the most sense for me. And [today ] I am now leaning away from the buzz-box and towards something like the sd180 or an inverter tig/stick type unit. I know they cost more but might make sense...in the long run.

What do I want to do with whatever I buy? Was thinking about that...concluded the range of possibilities extends from welding sheets of aluminum foil for use by my wife in the kitchen, to space shuttle fabrication. On the weekends well...maybe backyard aircraft carrier construction just to get the hang of dealing with thicker steel...

Seriousness aside, I expect I will find myself doing less than that. But my guess is that I will want to try welding all different kinds of metals for the sake of it. This is a hobby interest so I might spring for something that costs a little more just so I am sure I do it right the first time. If welding is like other things, I bet once you have the tools you find dozens of uses for them that were never there before...

I have to admit I don't like high tech that much. The simplicity of old magnetic circuits appeals to me. I have not learned yet what the inverter technology is about, but I have visions of solid state bridges, maybe IGBT transistors, complex circuit boards for control, and so on. I wonder how reliable these things would be, and what the likelyhood is of an expensive repair being needed after the warrenty period is up. Transformers are extreemly rugged and reliable. Solid state welders...I'm just not sure....

So between now and when I decide to do something [might even buy that buzz box, who knows] I plan on continuing reading the results of searches of the archives, and taking pointers from whoever wishes to give suggestions.

When it is all over, I expect that I will own:

[ac/dc welder if I buy one first]

Mig unit

Tig/stick unit

Plasma cutter

Maybe even a torch...

I do have a 4x6 metal band saw and a couple drill presses.

I expect that if I buy a buzz box, then the second thing I will buy is the MIG

I might increase the budget a little to do things right.

Thanks for the input...it really helps!

By the way, what's a weldor need a drill press for????

[morpheus]

Originally posted by Henro

By the way, what's a weldor need a drill press for????

You'd be surprised how many things you need to drill a hole in when fabricating things. In my garage/shop it's one of the most commonly used tools.

- jack

[Scott V]

Originally posted by morpheus


You'd be surprised how many things you need to drill a hole in when fabricating things. In my garage/shop it's one of the most commonly used tools.

- jack

One of things you can do is drill holes so you can weld them up!

[DaveD]

As soon as you want to weld tubes/pipe together you will want a tubing notcher and the drill press is a real good way to run it. I have a el-cheapo harbor freight one (notcher) for $50.

When you make all those brackets you will need bolts somewhere along the line, Hence you need holes.

I just made a picture frame for my daughter out of 5/8 square tube and it has a grid of wires in it to hold the painting. That was a lot of holes (drilled on the diagonal ) and the grid wire was thin Stainless steel wire.

For me as a home hobbiest i'd say the drill press is the most used piece of equipment other than the air compressor and sawzall in my shop. I'm always drilling something or another.

[Franz]

I don't know if it's still in production, but Airco used to make a machine called a Dip/Stick that was both MIG and stick out of the box, and could run TIG by adding gas and a torch. I had one, and ran a lot of wire thru it, as well as burned some rods.
That machine was the clocest to an all purpose welder of anything I ever ran, and the only shortcoming I ever found in it was the 7 foot gun cable.
It didn't like dusty environments because of the horizontal current adjusting core, but an occasional blowout with an air hose overcame that problem.
For a guy starting out, such a machine is close to perfect.
The problem in today's world is there are so many machines with so much capability, and thanks to promotion and box stores, a lot of people think they can weld.
After 40+ years of burning rods, I still say start with a buzz box, Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, Forney, whatever, and learn 2 things, do you like to weld, and do you want to keep welding. Once you have the technique down, decide on what machine you need next. You can build one **** of a lot with a torch and a buzz box, but having a saw and drill press beats **** out of not having them.