Worst welding machine ever?

[Scott V]

Hey guys,who made the worst welding machine ever?You guys know how much I like esab,so here is my pick.I also like what he says about welding with it.This thing will burn the wire right in there hot ,and fast.What he is not telling you is it will burn the wire right into the tip!One note on this welder,it was esabs first time using a aluminum transformer.What were they thinking?
It lasted one year.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2510956704&category=34099

[Ed Heimbach]

That esab looks alot like an Air Products mig welder that I bought 18 years ago. My former air products machine gets my vote for the worst welder. Cost me $1685.00 with a tank of c25, I think I got maybe #30 of wire through it before the card that runs the drive motor went bad. Under warenty at that time, free fix. Same thing six mos. later, no free fix. Two more years, same problem.
Traded it and a tomb stone Lincoln for a Hobart gw -225 engine drive portable, Hobart (built 1983) still makes me money.
Best trade I ever made.

[Dan]

My vote would have to be for the early edition MM 250 that I run at work. I ve been using it most of the week in spray transfer mode. The arc characteristics of this machine are so strange. There is always about a 2 second lag then it comes on strong. This is real obvious when using it for spray transfer. At the start of a spray transfer arc I get the crackle sound for about 2 second then all the sudden the arc just fans out like it should be doing at the settings I m using. Im running around 420 IPM with an .035 and have went to the extreme of trying as high as 30 load volts and it still crackles for about 2 seconds then once again the arc fans out like it should. Once all the projects on my list that require spray transfer are completed we are finally going to send the machine in and have it looked at. I ve only been telling the boss for 5+ years that something isn t right with the machine.

Now of course the best machine that I have recently ran is my MM 210. In spray transfer mode with it the arc fans out as soon as it is started.

[Scott V]

Dan,that MM250 is right there.When that machine came out guys were trading in their MM200,and they were pissed off. When they found out what they had done.I looked at one I was going to buy,and my welding store friend talked me out of it.I bought the 250 migmaster instead.He also had some in his demo fleet,and a guys migmaster contactor messed up.So he had a MM250 dropped off at the guys shop as a loner.The MM250 that the driver dropped off,made it back to the welding store before the driver made it back.That kind of says it all.You are not the only one to think it's a pile.That was the reason for the vintage,although Miller won't admit it.

I still think the Esab is worse,But atleast Esab didn't cancel their good one for a bad one.They canceled the bad one.I give them credit for that.That machine really gave them a black eye.I lot of the people that bought the MM250 wouldn't know the difference,because they have a miller.Thats the most important thing to some people.From that point on,I alway go for the best arc on every welder I buy,no matter what.Thats why I always have to laugh on the fancy drive rolls everybody pushes.They should push what the arc is like period!

[chub380]

mm250

Hi Dan, it could be that your run in needs adjusted it sounds like it could stand to be adjusted higher, that could explain the delay. Chub

[BugEyedValiant]

My dad bought a MM250 when they came out. It is in my garage now and I agree that it is not the best (by FAR). My brothers HH135 is so smooth compared to the MM250. A guy that I know worked at a welding supplier around here and when he opened up his brake and muffler shop he also got one of the MM250s. He said that it sucked compared to the MM200. Looks like a kind of a flop to me.

[Cowboy]

Everybody seems to like the mm210 whats the word on the mm251? Is it an improvement over the mm250, or is it just the same machine differant model number?

[chub380]

there are three generations mm250 ?-1998-99 mm250x 98-2001 mm251 2001- present I think each machine got slightly better as time went on. The 210 and the vintage are tap machines which give them a much softer arc the mm250.250x,251 are solid state which gives them a much crisper arc. A nice feature of the 251 is that you can adjust the run in without taking the machine apart. Miller told me how to do this with my 250x what a difference, no burnbacks perfect starts almost every time. Chub

[Scott V]

MM-251

My friend that had welded with all versions of 250 series,says Miller is getting closer with the 251,but is not there yet.But is getting real close.

Chub380, it used to be the case that solid state alumunim had a crisper harsher arc,but with some of the newer machines out now with inductance,and hybrid type power supplies they have a much smoother,and softer arc than tap machines.You also can make the arc real crisp,or soft to suit.Maybe Miller should add a adjustable inductance,and slope to their next model the Miller 252X?

[chub380]

Sounds like a plan, Miller better do something to keep up with that pm300. Sorry I was not to clear I should have said that crispness is for the mm line. I have welded with a new 251 the arc is very close to that of my 250x. It is very different from the 210 that I have welded with. I am not sure what I like better I just know they are very different. It would most likely have to do with the thickness of metals being welded, allthough I have done exhaust pipe with .035 wire with my 250x very easily. Overall I think for thin work the 210 would be superior in the long run. Chub

[manofsteel]

Scott V
How do you like your Lincoln 305G engine drive. I was looking at that one and the miller trailblazer...did you do any comparison?

Thanks,
Walt

[Scott V]

305g

Like I said before I looked at both of them side by side,and I picked the Lincoln,because I didn't need ac.If I did,I would just take my Thermal prowave with me.Then I would have a squarewave inverter that would stomp any ac arc a engine drive could come up with.That was the only advantage the Trailblazer had over the lincoln.The lincoln sales for about 600.00 dollars more on average,but mine was a deal that Lincoln brought in.The guy that ordered mine bought a Trailblazer.I could of got the Trailblazer for $3190.00,and ended up paying $3150.00 for a new in box late model 305G.If I had to do it today,and the Lincoln was $600.00 more,I would pick the Lincoln again.I was using it yesterday along with my new esab voltage sensing feeder ,and I lke it better than I did when I bought it.The one thing I did find out about voltage sensing feeder is you should switch them off before removing the ground,or atleast keep you gloves on.Because they like to bite!
Check out this thread at this site.Ken Mui really knows a whole lot about lincoln,and Miller.

http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?id=2906

[manofsteel]

Scott,
Thanks for the reply...I appreciate it. I will be using the engine drive to power our sump pump and other minor items when the power goes out. The power always goes out during a storm when we need the sump pump the most and is generally out for several hours or longer. I like the low rpm generator output of the Legend...a plus, especially when it will be sitting next to the house running for several hours...noise becomes an issue. That is why I was looking at the Lincoln 250 & 305G because of the totally enclosed engine.
As far as welding goes... I like the ac ability of the trailblazer, the others mentioned above do not. Chopper tech. of the Lincoln is a plus, I am not sure of the arc of the Legend. I have to figure out my options. I would like the ability to do alum. out in the field with either mig or tig. There are a lot of options, still sorting through. I like the way you mentioned about your prowave. This is where it gets fun...picking out so many new toys.

Thanks
Walt

[chub380]

Hi mos, I have a 280nt which is the model just before the 301. I love it I like scott got a great deal on it so i went with it, I do not regreat it. It has a four pole rotor design which makes for a very smooth arc. It also has a very strong generator you can be welding at 150amps and still have full 9000watts of power. I know I like the trailblazer much mare than a bobcat or a ranger8. [I have used both of them]The 305 sounds like a great choice also. the Trailblazer can weld alum almost as good as a syncrowave powersource with a high freq box. Chub

[Scott V]

Walt,

I am sure the Legend is a very good welder just like the Trailblazer,and the Lincolns.Miller has tried to kill the Legend and people just want that machine.So instead of killing it they went ahead and did a number on it.It really is kind of cool,the way the thing works.They only need to close up the sheetmetal,to really finish the thing off.To help with the noise at 3700 rpm.

Chub380,How come my thread on the worst welding machine ever,has degraded into some of the best welding machines ever?