more confused than ever

Originally posted by Franz
.....The weld ain't in the machine, it's in the man behind the helmet. It's a learned skill, one acquired over time, and one that you'll never want to leave behind once you've mastered it.
.....

Franz...I agree with you 100%....a good weldor can take ANY machine and make a good weld with it. IMHO

[Scott V]

Cope,you are right,and it makes me feel better.Then again there are some alumimun things like some boats out here that just make me sick.Very nice welds.

[cope]

Scott

You mentioned that you look at welds every where you go. Interesting that many MIG welds in commercial products, for instance display fixtures, are sloppy.

[Scott V]

Dan,I use a female cable dinse connector for my ground.The reason for the dinse is because all my cables are dinse.Makes it easy to go from tig to stick to mig.Also with a 25 foot gun,and a 12 foot gun I can use different lenth ground cables.Just go ahead,and try to find a female cable dinse connetor though.The ones I found were real german dinse conectors.

Dan,on the spoolgun setup you mean you want a setup like on the esab 250 migmaster?One cable,and that it.

I also looked at the undered powered miller 150 when I bought my first mm130.It was in the same case as the mm185.The one thing about that welder was it was very nice for muffler,and bodywork.better low end with .023 than the 185.That info was from talking to a muffler guy that still uses one today.

HI DAN...........THANKS FOR THE INPUT...........I HAVE ALREADY COPIED AND PASTED TO APROPRIATE FOLKS........... I APPRECIATE YOUR FEED BACK AND I DIDN'T EVEN NEED A PENCIL ON THIS ONE...........GRIN.............I USE A PENCIL BECAUSE OF ALL THE SPELLING ERRORS I MAKE.............HAS TO DO WITH BAD HABITS AND NOT LOOKING AT THE MONITOR AS I TYPE...............ROCK
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[cope]

Dan, from what you have told me about your son, be sure there isn't a scratch awl lying around the shop. He may scribe the needle position into the cover of the meter!

[Dan]

Scott

I bought my CK systematics 175 back in 1991 for $1000. As I remember at the time it seemed to be the best machine available in my price range. At the time, if I remember right the only 220 V Miller that I could afford (I was only 23 years old and just out of welding school) was a MM 150. To be honest with you the MM 150 was no were near the machine that I wanted. I was looking for a machine that would handle up to 1/4" steel with a fair duty cycle. Now, there are a few design ideas on the CK 175 that I still like to this day, and wish other machines included them. Rock, do you have your pen and paper ready? here is the list.

1. The ground clamp cable plugs into a socket on the front of the machine. What I like about this is at the end of the day when you are done with the machine, you can disconnect the groung cable from the machine, roll it up and put it on a hook on the wall. It almost always seem like when you use a machine that has the ground lead attached permanently to the machine that when you go to set it up you always have to untangle the ground lead and the gun cable.

2. The polarity change on the machine is extremely easy. The front of the machine has two sockets on it. One is for the ground clamp lead to plug into and the other is for plugging the gun lead into. So changing polarity is just a matter of unplugging the 2 leads and plugging them into the opposite socket.No tools are required.

3. Now my MM 210 has this next one . So good job Miller. I ve always hated on our MM 250 at work that there is no were to store the gun cable or ground clamp lead on the machine except for wrapping them around the handle, which becomes annoying when you want to move the machine. Anyway, on the side of the CK 175 they have provided a hook to wrap the cables or cable around.

4. The final feature is the fact that there is an analog volt meter on the front of the machine. So if I want to know what my load volts are I can just have my son watch the meter, and then after Im done welding, he shows me what position the needle went to on the meter.


On my MM 210 the socket connection would be a great idea for connecting the spool gun. There are times when it is annoying to have the spool gun connected to the machine too, and it would be nice to be able to remove it quickly without having to use a wrench. I guess Im just getting lazy as I get older.

[Scott V]

Dan,

My friend is on vacation this week,but when he gets back I am going to demo a 135 Miller even if I have to buy it.I know the little copper Millers inside and out,and will see how much of a leap forward those things are.

Also he has a used Ck175 setting on the floor,I will see if I can demo it.I will have him give me a full run down of the Ck,see if it Matches what you think of them.Seems to me talking to him about those welders,the one model with the built in tig were ok welders,but had the worst tig arc around.I Know this 175 did not have the tig.

[Scott V]

Rock,I knew that about what replaced what.His opinions are the most unbiased I have ever heard about machines anywhere.I been to a lot of welding stores,and from one of the very best,if not the best welders around this area,from my friends sheetmetal shop repeats almost word for word what my friend at the welding store says.Jack is the welders name,and he made the shop buy a aerowave when they came out,although he could make nice welds with a harbor freight welder.He was one of the guys that screamed the loudest when the shop bought a mm250.His words were,this is no miller. they picked up a vintage shortly after.So I just don't have one person telling me this stuff.You should see this guy weld,although he is now retired.This guy walked off the street twenty years ago from being a truck driver,and my friends dad taught him to weld.I have never seen nicer welds in aluminum,and stainless anywhere ever.I look at welds every place I go,just like the rest of you guys.

HEY SCOTT V..........THE MM130 WAS REPLACED BY THE 130XP AND THAT WAS REPLACED BY THE MM135..... THE MM185 WAS REPLACED BY THE MM210..........I WOULD ALSO HOPE EVERYONE IS GIVEING AN HONEST AND UNBIASED OPINION HERE.........BE SAFE NOW....................................ROCK....... ......
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[Scott V]

Dan,No I have not welded with the mm175.I only saying my lincoln is flat out awsome,compared to a mm185,mm130 xp,mm130,Lincoln sp125.mk 2000a,migmaster 250,Lincoln 305g, thats short arc with .030/.023 wire with 75/25 gas,its also matches up nicely to my powermig.Those machines are the ones I welded alot with so I know what they are like.

My friend at the welding store that really has welded with about every welder made in the last 20 or so years,and some older ones also.I was going by his test of the mm175,and the mm135.The 135 he could not stand,and the miller rep was right there giving him a demo.My friend asked the Miller rep if he has welded with the sp135 plus,and the rep said no.So the miller rep tried the sp,and was really impressed.My friend did say maybe there might be something wrong with the mm135,and probally should test another one.I told him to call me when he has one hooked up again.On the mm175 I asked him later on hows it welds,and he told me it wasn't as bad as he first thought it was.So I left it there until I could get a demo for myself.Every welding machine that I talk to him about,that I have used,he tells me the exact same thing I find out about them.As you know I look for problems.Case to point powermig .023 welding.The one Miller he has not welded with is the mm210.I want to try that one too.This guy doesn't pull any punchs when he tells you about a machine,No hype just facts.Dan,I will give you his phone # if you want a honest view for somebody that seems to like to tell the truth,on things.

By the way Dan just so you know he doesn't like the Lincoln 175 tig,and the Miller 180 tig very much.In fact I tried to buy the Lincoln,and he talked me out of it.So I ended up instead with a Esab 252 ac/dc with all the options instead.He didn't make anymore money on that but he knew the downside to those machines.That Esab was a real nice machine,and still is.I wouldn't mind owning one if there was no such things as inverters.

Also I was using your 210 as a machine to get,not really what you started with.I did know you had a CK machine because you said so.

[Dan]

Re: Which welder?

Originally posted by Scott V
I say bite the bullet now,and get a 210 Miller/Hobart.If your machine can spray arc it goes a long way in getting some fusion.Plus once you do some you will feel better about your welds on thicker type metal.If you look at the machines Dan has had you will see that he is moving up in size.I think people should buy big first then buy a smaller one after you Know what you want.Everybody does it the wrong way,including me.That said the 175 amp machines are pretty nice,and if you buy a Lincoln Sp175 plus you will have the best welding 175 in the bunch.

Scott

I have to agree with you, if a hobbiest weldor can afford a MM 210 I would definately recommmend it first over one of the 175 amp machines. The MM 210 gives the options of globular transfer, spray transfer, a gas shielded fluxcore wire, or a self shielded fluxcore wire on thicker material, were as a 175 machine is going to be limited to a self shielded fluxcore wire. Not that there is anything wrong with a self shielded fluxcore wire.


Now we are all well aware of your obsession with promoting the Lincoln SP 175. Now what I have been dying to know is if you have actually logged anytime in on a HH 175 or MM 175. The reason I ask is because I have been very impressed with the results that my HH 175 produces. On 22 ga. with an .023 wire and C25 the arc is incredibly smooth and soft. However, I tried an .030 wire on the 22 ga. and the arc sucked. But, it has a very stable arc with .030 and .035 solid wire and C25 on 16 ga. thru 3/16. And it also does a nice job of running the self shielded fluxcore wires. Now, Im not putting down your Lincoln SP 175, because you are definately a man who is passionate about welding so I respect your opinion on machines that you have actual experience with, and besides I have never ran a SP 175. Now, I have no problem with Lincoln's product, I run a Lincoln Squarewave 175 at work, and feel that it is a good machine. However,at lower current settings, in the GTAW mode the arc is a little lazy at stablizing on start ups. My problem with Lincoln of course as you already know is with the customer service experiences that I have had with the company.


Now before I end this post I need to correct you. My HH 175 was not my first machine, I started out with a 250 amp AC/DC stick machine. Then I purchased a CK Systematics 175 wire feed machine which is actually a 200 amp machine similar in size to my MM 210. Then years later I purchased the HH 175 for portability. And when Miller offered the MM 210 with a free spool gun I couldn t let such a deal get away. I got the complete set up for $1088.

By the way, the arc quality on my CK Systematics 175 is so similar to my MM 210's that I think I can probably get it to produce spray transfer with an .035 wire too. I keep it at my Dad's place though so I need to take my bottle of 98/2 along with me one of these days and give it a try.

NCSPORTSMAN...........WELL SIR........WITH ALL THE GOOD ANSWERS AND ALL THE EXCELLENT RESPONSES THE ONLY THING I CAN TELL YOU NOW IS................ HAVE SOME FUN WITH YOUR DECISION.......MOST OF THE TIME A SHORT COURSE AT THE LOCAL VOTECK SCHOOL OR COMMUNITY COLLEGE WILL TEACH YOU TREMENDOUS SKILLS THAT WILL ACCOMPANY YOU THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.............HEAD TO SOME LOCAL DISTRIBUTORS AND TRY OUT SOME MACHINES.................THEN LET US KNOW WHAT YOUR DECISION WAS AND WHY................YOUR ABOUT TO HAVE SOME FUN FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE...........................BE SAFE AND ENJOY....................................ROCK
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[R. Nelson]

Re: more confused than ever

Originally posted by ncsportsman
Hello everyone,I like alot of others have been looking for a welder etc... I came online as a guest for about 2 weeks before registering and have read alot of posts about which welder etc without bothering anyone. A friend got me interested and he has a stick welder and a Hobart 135 mig too. So, I decided to see what all you had and what could be done with each and all that. Well,after reading things I have decided I am lost again but even more so now. I don't want a Hot glue gun, but don't need a 3k outfit either. I am just a beginner but most of the time when I get involved in something I try to learn all I can so I can do a halfway decent job for myself and not kill someone in the process. The MM210 sounds good but a little pricey for a person starting out and the MM175 seems like a good machine so I will post this and see what comments i get before the actual purchase. I don't intend to make racecars but I don't want the utility trailer falling apart on Interstate 40 heading to WV hauling my 4 wheeler either. So,advice is very helpful,needed and appreciated. The shops I have been to in my area of NC are very helpful also. They seem willing to explain things and let you make a informed decision in the process. I am impressed with the way you all answer the same questions to beginners,not like some boards where it is like pulling teeth to get someone to help you. Be safe and thank you all very much......Vernon

The HH175 is an excellent machine, with the four taps instead of infinate adjustment, it is easier for a beginner to use and will weld 1/4 inch in a single pass. I bought mine with a 40cf. bottle and taxes for about $660 and I love it.

[Scott V]

Which welder?

I say bite the bullet now,and get a 210 Miller/Hobart.If your machine can spray arc it goes a long way in getting some fusion.Plus once you do some you will feel better about your welds on thicker type metal.If you look at the machines Dan has had you will see that he is moving up in size.I think people should buy big first then buy a smaller one after you Know what you want.Everybody does it the wrong way,including me.That said the 175 amp machines are pretty nice,and if you buy a Lincoln Sp175 plus you will have the best welding 175 in the bunch.