more confused than ever

[ncsportsman]

Hello everyone,I like alot of others have been looking for a welder etc... I came online as a guest for about 2 weeks before registering and have read alot of posts about which welder etc without bothering anyone. A friend got me interested and he has a stick welder and a Hobart 135 mig too. So, I decided to see what all you had and what could be done with each and all that. Well,after reading things I have decided I am lost again but even more so now. I don't want a Hot glue gun, but don't need a 3k outfit either. I am just a beginner but most of the time when I get involved in something I try to learn all I can so I can do a halfway decent job for myself and not kill someone in the process. The MM210 sounds good but a little pricey for a person starting out and the MM175 seems like a good machine so I will post this and see what comments i get before the actual purchase. I don't intend to make racecars but I don't want the utility trailer falling apart on Interstate 40 heading to WV hauling my 4 wheeler either. So,advice is very helpful,needed and appreciated. The shops I have been to in my area of NC are very helpful also. They seem willing to explain things and let you make a informed decision in the process. I am impressed with the way you all answer the same questions to beginners,not like some boards where it is like pulling teeth to get someone to help you. Be safe and thank you all very much......Vernon

[ChadRat]

I think the 175 is an excellent choice for someone starting out. You should be able to make a nice trailer with that. The specs for this machine is up to 1/4 steel. Most utility trailers are made of 1/8 or 3/16 steel. Just make sure you have good penetration before ya start. Practice, Practice Practice! Cut some of your practice pieces in half and see how well you are doing. You got to get to the point where you can see the penetration while you are welding. Some people enroll in a class. I learned how to stick weld in high school metal shop and taught myself how to mig. Just make some lil things to start off with.

[Mike Sherman]

Vernon, the mm175 is an adequate machine for a hobbiest as is a Lincoln machine of the same size. You should be aware that although a mig is very easy to use and very good for making trailers, a $200 stick machine will also weld anything you ever will need. It all comes down to how much money you wish to spend. A SMAW machine is very inexpensive yet requires considerable more skill than a GMAW machine. I hope I have not confused you more than before, I have been known to muddy the waters once in awhile.

[Roger]

I learned welding with a gas welder so think everyone else should also.

Except for cost of using gas welder it, really is great way to learn how to weld. Things happen slower and easier to see how to manipulate puddle. Nice to have around for cutting and bending metal. The small tanks sold at Lowes & Home Depot are not very practical for most things. If you can gas weld, then it's easy to learn TIG welding.

Small MIG is easy to learn and is great for thin metal. Easy to make bad welds but that is why even good welders make test welds. Test weld as weld a coupon and bend test. Then cut across weld to see penitration.

Sick welder is best value expecially 2nd hand ones as they don't have much to break. Don't bother with 110V stick welder. Sick welding is a little hard to learn.

[Al T.]

I'm having a blast with my HH175, great value.

Have Fun!

[Mark Whiddon]

You will do very well with a 175 amp machine from any of the big three. I have a HH 175 and love it. I use gas with it and it welds like a dream. As far as the trailer goes, I would suggest you weld up a bunch of practice pieces and put them in a vise and beat the heck out of them to see how well your welds hold up before I would attemt to weld something that may come apart and injure someone driving behind me. You can make lovely looking welds that basically are just sitting on top of the metal and will break with little to no pressure. You will get the hang of it but don't be afraid to crank the amps up on the machine. (this is my opinion and mine alone- it is better to have too much penetration than not enough). What I mean by that is when you burn through you immediately know it. You can go back and fill in the holes in a few seconds when the metal cools. If you underpenetrate (not enough heat) the weld may look good and you go paint it etc,,, then WHAMO it falls apart when you need it. That being said, with destructive testing you will be able to see how well your welding holds up and if you need to change anything about it. Good luck and have fun.

[Cowboy]

ncsportsmen
These guys gave you all the right answers, my 2 cents, is always get as good or big as you can afford. Good luck!

[Franz]

45+ years back, I started out with a lincoln 225 toumbstone, and never ran it above 150 amps.
Today, I own 11 or so electric welders, MIG, TIG, and Stick, and still own that **** toumbstone. I can't sell the machine I learned on.
I have to say, I learned a lot better on that dang AC machine than I ever would have on the Lincoln Rotarys I own today. The AC machine will make a beginner into a weldOr over a few years, and you'll never be sorry for what you learn.
Over time I've used that old monster to embarras a lot of guys who claimed to be weldors, and I can still lay down a good weld with it.
There are a lot of those old machines sitting collecting dust, and were I advising you, I'd tell you to seek one out and buy it, along with 50# of 1/8 6013, and start learning.
Another of the finest machines I owned was a Hobart Dip/Stick, combination MIG & stick machine. Only thing I disliked about that machine was the 7 foot gun cable. I got tired of that thing having to be moved, or jobs planned around the machine, so I replaced it with a Millermatic 225.
I really can't remember encountering a bad machine from any of the major manufacturers, Lincoln, Hobart, Miller, P&H, Westinghouse, or General Electric.
I just sent a General Electric MG set made in 1920 to a collector's museum, with about a hundred pounds of rod that looked like it was hand wrapped in tape. I get to make the first pass with that old girl when she's restored, and I'm looking forward to that day.
That machine is 200 amps, and weighs over 1300#.
The weld ain't in the machine, it's in the man behind the helmet. It's a learned skill, one acquired over time, and one that you'll never want to leave behind once you've mastered it.
Yup, the new machines are nice, but unless you're a robot, they will never have the appeal of the old machines.

[ncsportsman]

Thank you all for some more advice, I am heading to WV this weekend to try to spend some time learning the basics before I get one hopefully this next week. Will keep you posted. c ya....VH

[Scott V]

Which welder?

I say bite the bullet now,and get a 210 Miller/Hobart.If your machine can spray arc it goes a long way in getting some fusion.Plus once you do some you will feel better about your welds on thicker type metal.If you look at the machines Dan has had you will see that he is moving up in size.I think people should buy big first then buy a smaller one after you Know what you want.Everybody does it the wrong way,including me.That said the 175 amp machines are pretty nice,and if you buy a Lincoln Sp175 plus you will have the best welding 175 in the bunch.

[R. Nelson]

Re: more confused than ever

Originally posted by ncsportsman
Hello everyone,I like alot of others have been looking for a welder etc... I came online as a guest for about 2 weeks before registering and have read alot of posts about which welder etc without bothering anyone. A friend got me interested and he has a stick welder and a Hobart 135 mig too. So, I decided to see what all you had and what could be done with each and all that. Well,after reading things I have decided I am lost again but even more so now. I don't want a Hot glue gun, but don't need a 3k outfit either. I am just a beginner but most of the time when I get involved in something I try to learn all I can so I can do a halfway decent job for myself and not kill someone in the process. The MM210 sounds good but a little pricey for a person starting out and the MM175 seems like a good machine so I will post this and see what comments i get before the actual purchase. I don't intend to make racecars but I don't want the utility trailer falling apart on Interstate 40 heading to WV hauling my 4 wheeler either. So,advice is very helpful,needed and appreciated. The shops I have been to in my area of NC are very helpful also. They seem willing to explain things and let you make a informed decision in the process. I am impressed with the way you all answer the same questions to beginners,not like some boards where it is like pulling teeth to get someone to help you. Be safe and thank you all very much......Vernon

The HH175 is an excellent machine, with the four taps instead of infinate adjustment, it is easier for a beginner to use and will weld 1/4 inch in a single pass. I bought mine with a 40cf. bottle and taxes for about $660 and I love it.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

NCSPORTSMAN...........WELL SIR........WITH ALL THE GOOD ANSWERS AND ALL THE EXCELLENT RESPONSES THE ONLY THING I CAN TELL YOU NOW IS................ HAVE SOME FUN WITH YOUR DECISION.......MOST OF THE TIME A SHORT COURSE AT THE LOCAL VOTECK SCHOOL OR COMMUNITY COLLEGE WILL TEACH YOU TREMENDOUS SKILLS THAT WILL ACCOMPANY YOU THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.............HEAD TO SOME LOCAL DISTRIBUTORS AND TRY OUT SOME MACHINES.................THEN LET US KNOW WHAT YOUR DECISION WAS AND WHY................YOUR ABOUT TO HAVE SOME FUN FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE...........................BE SAFE AND ENJOY....................................ROCK
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[Dan]

Re: Which welder?

Originally posted by Scott V
I say bite the bullet now,and get a 210 Miller/Hobart.If your machine can spray arc it goes a long way in getting some fusion.Plus once you do some you will feel better about your welds on thicker type metal.If you look at the machines Dan has had you will see that he is moving up in size.I think people should buy big first then buy a smaller one after you Know what you want.Everybody does it the wrong way,including me.That said the 175 amp machines are pretty nice,and if you buy a Lincoln Sp175 plus you will have the best welding 175 in the bunch.

Scott

I have to agree with you, if a hobbiest weldor can afford a MM 210 I would definately recommmend it first over one of the 175 amp machines. The MM 210 gives the options of globular transfer, spray transfer, a gas shielded fluxcore wire, or a self shielded fluxcore wire on thicker material, were as a 175 machine is going to be limited to a self shielded fluxcore wire. Not that there is anything wrong with a self shielded fluxcore wire.


Now we are all well aware of your obsession with promoting the Lincoln SP 175. Now what I have been dying to know is if you have actually logged anytime in on a HH 175 or MM 175. The reason I ask is because I have been very impressed with the results that my HH 175 produces. On 22 ga. with an .023 wire and C25 the arc is incredibly smooth and soft. However, I tried an .030 wire on the 22 ga. and the arc sucked. But, it has a very stable arc with .030 and .035 solid wire and C25 on 16 ga. thru 3/16. And it also does a nice job of running the self shielded fluxcore wires. Now, Im not putting down your Lincoln SP 175, because you are definately a man who is passionate about welding so I respect your opinion on machines that you have actual experience with, and besides I have never ran a SP 175. Now, I have no problem with Lincoln's product, I run a Lincoln Squarewave 175 at work, and feel that it is a good machine. However,at lower current settings, in the GTAW mode the arc is a little lazy at stablizing on start ups. My problem with Lincoln of course as you already know is with the customer service experiences that I have had with the company.


Now before I end this post I need to correct you. My HH 175 was not my first machine, I started out with a 250 amp AC/DC stick machine. Then I purchased a CK Systematics 175 wire feed machine which is actually a 200 amp machine similar in size to my MM 210. Then years later I purchased the HH 175 for portability. And when Miller offered the MM 210 with a free spool gun I couldn t let such a deal get away. I got the complete set up for $1088.

By the way, the arc quality on my CK Systematics 175 is so similar to my MM 210's that I think I can probably get it to produce spray transfer with an .035 wire too. I keep it at my Dad's place though so I need to take my bottle of 98/2 along with me one of these days and give it a try.

[Scott V]

Dan,No I have not welded with the mm175.I only saying my lincoln is flat out awsome,compared to a mm185,mm130 xp,mm130,Lincoln sp125.mk 2000a,migmaster 250,Lincoln 305g, thats short arc with .030/.023 wire with 75/25 gas,its also matches up nicely to my powermig.Those machines are the ones I welded alot with so I know what they are like.

My friend at the welding store that really has welded with about every welder made in the last 20 or so years,and some older ones also.I was going by his test of the mm175,and the mm135.The 135 he could not stand,and the miller rep was right there giving him a demo.My friend asked the Miller rep if he has welded with the sp135 plus,and the rep said no.So the miller rep tried the sp,and was really impressed.My friend did say maybe there might be something wrong with the mm135,and probally should test another one.I told him to call me when he has one hooked up again.On the mm175 I asked him later on hows it welds,and he told me it wasn't as bad as he first thought it was.So I left it there until I could get a demo for myself.Every welding machine that I talk to him about,that I have used,he tells me the exact same thing I find out about them.As you know I look for problems.Case to point powermig .023 welding.The one Miller he has not welded with is the mm210.I want to try that one too.This guy doesn't pull any punchs when he tells you about a machine,No hype just facts.Dan,I will give you his phone # if you want a honest view for somebody that seems to like to tell the truth,on things.

By the way Dan just so you know he doesn't like the Lincoln 175 tig,and the Miller 180 tig very much.In fact I tried to buy the Lincoln,and he talked me out of it.So I ended up instead with a Esab 252 ac/dc with all the options instead.He didn't make anymore money on that but he knew the downside to those machines.That Esab was a real nice machine,and still is.I wouldn't mind owning one if there was no such things as inverters.

Also I was using your 210 as a machine to get,not really what you started with.I did know you had a CK machine because you said so.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HEY SCOTT V..........THE MM130 WAS REPLACED BY THE 130XP AND THAT WAS REPLACED BY THE MM135..... THE MM185 WAS REPLACED BY THE MM210..........I WOULD ALSO HOPE EVERYONE IS GIVEING AN HONEST AND UNBIASED OPINION HERE.........BE SAFE NOW....................................ROCK....... ......
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