right welder?

[dogface]

i was at home depot today. i notice they carry lincoln welders. im new to welding and not even sure which size machine i would need. i'd like to weld motorcycle frames which would be in the range of 120 at 1 1/4" and 1 1/2" in size(subject to alot of vibration). i saw the lincoln hd 135 unit and the price was good. i've been looking at the hh135 and hh175 at the site too. with what im going to do can you guys give me some feed back. tia, dogface

[Bob]

This one of the most asked questions. There have been lots of responses and advice. You may want to use search with things like "what welder" and "which welder".

An important consideration is you access to 220VAC for the larger machines.

Dollars are an important factor for most of us.

I think all the machines you mentioned are "MIG" (metal inert gas; a metal wire supplies the added metal in a cloud of inert gas)
Easy to learn for OK results, also fairly easy for a beginner to make bad welds that look OK. With experience, fast, easy, good, welds can be made.

You mentioned motorcycles. If you are going for "show bikes" you probably want to step up to "TIG" (tungsten inert gas; arc is formed from a tungsten tip (not consumed) and filler metal is added from an external rod). More $. A more precision process. Maybe harder to learn?

If more functional than show, try the MIG; but test your results before you stake your life on them.

WELCOME TO THE FORUM,
I hope you will like the vast array of techinques, thoughts, and projects contained here. The only stupid question, is the one not asked. (somebody must have said that?)

Bob

[Franz]

You asked for advice, so here it is;
Don't buy welders at Home Depot, or any box store.
Go to a night class and learn about welding, and how to weld.
Then, go to a welding supplier and establish a relationship, you'll need it over time.
Then, buy a machine, and learn how to use it.
Then, learn how to weld motorcycle frames properly, or leave them alone. It's hard to think what happens the next moment after a weld breaks on a motorcycle frame, but it ain't gonna be good.
MIG machines ain't called Hot Glue guns without reason.
Take it for what it's worth, from a guy who has been burnin rods for over 40 years. Welds don't come from machines, they are made by weldOrs.

[Dan]

I agree with Franz, if your going to weld motorcycle frameworks take some welding classes. And also, I personally never would weld a motorcycle framework with a wire feed machine. For me this would be strictly a TIG only project.

[Scott V]

Go look at most factory frames,They are mig welded.The factory can use any process they want,and I haven't heard of that many law suits from frames blowing apart lately.Have you?One thing though,the robots know how to weld pretty well.

[dogface]

thanks guys

thanks to all of you who gave some input here. i have been planning on taking a welding course at the local comunity college. i've been around it quite a bit over the years but never actually did any welding personally, so i know i need direction on it. as for the tig verses mig welding of bike frames i had always seen where manfacturers used tig but in most recent years they use mig. maybe it is because of using "robots" that this works. also there are quite a few private shops using mig(without robots) and seem to be getting stable results and thats why i was considering mig for this type of work. im not actually going to make frames but (chop) modify them. so now not only is the size of machine up in the air but the type of machine is also. lol. time is on my side and im in no hurry. so now im wondering if my original thoughts of a "tig only" weld for frames wasnt the right idea in the first place. can any of you elaborate on this given the fact that others seem to be getting good results with mig machines with and without robots? i think this is an important issue that can go much further in discussion and maybe enlighten others and help us carry a possibly much needed message to the cycle community. thanks again for the input thus far. dogface

[Franz]

Dogface, my first problem with motorcycle frames is I don't know what they are made of. That alone would tell me to leave them alone.
40 years back, I stick welded a lot of frame add ons and foot pegs onto bikes with a stick machine, for a dealer, and my welds looked a lot better than the mechanics did. Today, I wouldn't touch a bike frame for love or money, just too many alloys involved.
The looks of a MIG weld are very deceiving. Last summer I watched a trailer come loose from a truck crossing an intersection.
I drove over to where it stopped and the headblock had come loose from the 2x2 plugin for the receiver. The weld looked great, it was all still on the block. The guy who owned it just couldn't understand how it had happened, he "welded" it himself, with his MIG.
Over time, a weldOr learns a lot of tricks and techniques, and a good weldOr remembers them. I'm in an area where Kodak has a lot of "weldOrs" who work in air conditioned welding labs, and have a day to make a weld most repair weldOrs would do in 15 minutes. When you go to an event here, groups of the lab weldOrs stroll around freely criticizing welds they see, but if you offer to fire up a machine and let them demonstrate their capability, none of them will. Over time, you just get the feel of what a machine will do, and what process works best. Some jobs are MIG, some are Stick, and some are TIG.
Nothing beats experience behind the helmet.

[atucker]

The local Harley plant uses tons of MIG wire each month, the distributor that I bought my MM210 from supplies them. When I went to pick up the unit, it was sitting next to several of the HUGE spools. Of course this is all probably all done with well controlled processes and known materials.

Franz, before I retired (actually got bought out), I spent 35 years doing field service work for the big X located near you.

Allen T.

[Franz]

We probably know a few people from the Bix sinking X in Webster Alan.

[dogface]

not familair wiothj materials but...

i heard some guy on a site talk of 1017 and 4140 for the neck and tube on the frames and i know they use migs but that site is for parts mostly and not as much good info on welding.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

DOGFACE.......... I'VE RIDEN HARLEY'S ALL MY LIFE I'M 3RD GENERATION HD RIDER...........MY GRANDFATHER 1913, MY DAD AFTER THE BIG ONE WWII, AND ME FROM A YOUNG AGE ONE... ALL OF MY BROTHERS STILL RIDE............. WHAT EVER YOU DO YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST UNDERSTAND STRESSES AND VIBRATIONS.... ALSO CUSTOM'S REQUIRE STRETCHING AND RAKEING........ PLEASE DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER IT IF YOU DO NOT SEE WHERE THE PHYSIC'S COME INTO PLAY..............IF YOU UNDERSTAND THIS THEN USE GUSSETS, AND KNOW YOUR MATERIAL YOUR WELDING..........TODAY'S MOTOR CYCLES ARE FINELY TUNED AND BALANCED...........EVEN CHANGES IN THE EXAUST SYSTEM REQUIRE RETUNEING AND REJETTING.............. I WOULD NOT EVEN CONSIDER TOUCHING A BUELL'S FRAME FOR MODIFICATIONS THAT BABY IS STEEL AND ALLOY'S.........OLDER ONES WERE STEEL AND FORGEINGS...............I DO NOT WANT THIS TO SOUND LIKE I'M LECTUREING BUT CONSIDER THIS ON A MOTOR CYCLE AT 100 MPH WHAT IF YOUR WELD FAILS....................?.......... NEED MORE INFO CALL ME........... I ALSO SPIN A WRENCH FROM TIME TO TIME FOR ONE OF FRIENDS MC SHOP'S...........AH YES I DO COUNTER WORK ALSO.......THIS IS NOT A PLUG FOR THIS MC SHOP. I'M TRYING TO CONVENCE YOU THAT IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO GET AS GOOD AS JESSIE JAMES..............ALSO ON OCASSION I DO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.......MY NUMBER HERE IS 937-332-4468 AND AFTER HOUSRS SOMETIMES AT THE MC SHOP IT IS MC CUSTOM CYCLE 937-339-8481........... BELIEVE ME I'VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME (HEY I'M OLD).......... A ENGINEER FRIEND OF MINE NAMED AL BLACKBURN THE DESIGNER OF THE ORIGINAL HANDLER NOW RETIRED RACED BIKES AT DAYTONA OFF OF THE SAND ONTO THE ASPHALT............. I WISH HE WOULD LET ME RESTORE HIS 42 BSA FOR HIM....................I WOULD LIKE TO GET INSIDE THAT BABY.............IF I WAS GOING TO WELD THE UNIT I WOULD LOOK AT WOULD BE A STICK, TIG, MIG UNIT. DOGFACE THE FUNNY THING IS I RELAXE WHEN I WORK ON HD'S..... HMMMM THAT KIND OF WORK RELAXES ME...,..THINK IT OVER AND TAKE SOME CLASSES TO GET GOOD AT IT..........ROCK
[email protected] BE SAFE NOW.................................

[dogface]

thanks rock

i too been wrenching since i was around 15 and im old too. well a young 51 isnt old i guess. i want to thank you for your concern and i completely understand your point. im not one to jump into something like this without being absolutely sure of what im doing. like i said time is on my side and getting educated is a priority for me. i feel that the bike community needs to know more on this subject than they now do. i see alot of guys doing chops with migs and i wondered how safe they would be. one guy even used gas pipe to stretch his frame which im sure will split over time. i dont have the expertise to tell these guys if they're making a booboo, but i hope to learn and contribute something to the ones who will listen. hopefully i'll not only go to the next step in custom work(chopping) but i can also carry what i suspect to be a "much needed message" to the cycle community. again rock thanks. dogface

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HI DOGFACE.........I WAS GETTING CONCERNED I HAD BEEN TO FORWARD WITH YOU........ YOU SHOULD SEE THE THINGS THAT COME THRU MY BROTHERS BUILDINGS THAT ARE OF POOR QUALITY,........ WE WON'T EVEN TALK ABOUT BIKES.......I'VE SEEN SOME DISASTERS................ THE TRUTH BE KNOWN I BUILT MYSELF A CHOPPER ONCE...........OUT OF A SPORTSTER AND WE KNOW HOW MUCH THEY VIBRATE........THE OLD ONES........ ANYWAY IT WOULD NOT TRACK RIGHT AND THE FRONT END WAS A MESS................SEE EVEN I HAVE MADE MISTAKES...........IN AN INPERFECT SOCIETY WE CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE TO GET THE WORD OUT..................UNDERSTANDING AND DOING THE ABSOLUTE BEST EVERYTIME SHOULD BE THE NORM NOW..........IF NOT THE CUSTOMER WILL GO ELSE WHERE..........I'VE ACTUALLY REFUSED TO WORK ON SOME BIKES BEFORE BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO SEE ANYONE GET KILLER OR HURT.............SORRY GETTING PHLISOPHICAL.............BE SAFE NOW...........ROCK
[email protected]

[ChadRat]

when it warms up. If that ever happens. I plan to sell my old bike and buy a harley. Of course I will have to chop it up, stretch it and add some scrolls to it. Are there any websites or books that have some good info on this?

[10secBu]

Man, you guys are now making me scared to actually put my car trailer on the road .

...which I just welded together with my Miller 251 Millermatic.