Thin metal problems

[Guest]

I've got a Hobart 135 and am working on a car I'm restoring. I seem to be unable to get this to work well on thin metal. I'm using the .023 wire..... Er70s6.... have the current set to 1 (the lowest setting) and just can't stop the burn throughs. The metal is approx. .032 thick. It's just about impossible. Not really technique related.... I don't think? I've got lots of practice material and after a day of fighting it, and trying just about every parameter I know or it's just not working out.

It's just about un-doable. It's like I've got way too much heat.... period. I tried one other thing. I reversed the polarity and made the gun negative. Opposite of the way they say to do it. This allows me to kinda get something done..... not as pretty as I'd like. These little machines are supposed to be good at this, but so far.... Not a chance.

Gas = 75%/25%

[Guest]

Re: Thin metal problems

Originally posted by Nolynn3
I've got a Hobart 135 and am working on a car I'm restoring. I seem to be unable to get this to work well on thin metal. I'm using the .023 wire..... Er70s6.... have the current set to 1 (the lowest setting) and just can't stop the burn throughs. The metal is approx. .032 thick. It's just about impossible. Not really technique related.... I don't think? I've got lots of practice material and after a day of fighting it, and trying just about every parameter I know or it's just not working out.

It's just about un-doable. It's like I've got way too much heat.... period. I tried one other thing. I reversed the polarity and made the gun negative. Opposite of the way they say to do it. This allows me to kinda get something done..... not as pretty as I'd like. These little machines are supposed to be good at this, but so far.... Not a chance.

Gas = 75%/25%

I don't think reversing the polarity is the answer...20 gauge is very difficult to weld a stringer on. I'd have to spot it with short squirts, and watch to see the base metal doesn't get too hot. That, or get your machine running smooth, and then try it going super fast stringers...steady movement...no weaving....just zip. Copper back would help, too.

[Roger]

Sounds like me trying to weld on suzuki's hood with .030 fluxcore wire just to see if really had to change wire.

My SP125+ easly welds .030 (22 ga.) with .023 wire and 75/25 mix. SP125+ welding chart lists settings for .024 (24 ga.) with 75/25 mix electrode negative but electrode positive using CO2. I can adjust both volts and feed rate lower than HH135.

Drag 10 degrees gives higher bead profile and less penitration. A little longer stickout might help.

Experenced welders use higher settings with faster travel rates preventing burn through.

The last resort prevention of burn through is short on pulse, then off until bead's red glow dims, then pulse on.,off,on,off...

[cope]

thin metal problem

Have not used either machine, but I agree with Roger; some machines go lower than others, making thin material easier to work with. Having said that, most body shops use 160-200 amp machines and most of their work is thin panels, so it is do-able, just takes more skill and patience.

[Bob]

I can relate. I have a hard time with thin material an HH-135. Don't have a copper backing bar. Best for me is the short (half to 1 inch) at a time, done very fast. Also to "stich"; do one segment then move several inches away for the next and so on. This allows cooling of each before the adjoining segment is heated.
I think Mike Sherman also suggested holding the nozzle still at the end of each bead (to keep the gas in place a few seconds longer?). I guess from oxy-ace and long ago stick welding, I have to fight the tendency to pull away as part of ending a bead.
Good Luck,
Bob

[Roger]

On a body pannel welds should be 1" or shorter to prevent warping. Space 1" welds around pannel until weld is filled in as desired. Some old bodyman will hammer each 1" weld to counter weld's shrinking as they did with gas welding.

[Nolynn3]

Wow - I've seen the light !!!

Wow !!! Went down to the local Airgas dealer and tested welders today. What a lesson in welders I got today. They were just great! They worked with me for 3.5 hours testing miller and ESAB welders on 20/22 guage material. I would never have believed there would be such a difference. The winner hands down was the ESAB Migmaster 250. I (not they) put down .035 wire on 22 guage material without burn through. It was like coming out of a bad dream. No other machine I tried did as well.

Tomorrow I buy a new machine.... BUT now I find the ESAB mutimaster 160 TIG/MIG/stick unit. They didn't have that there to test.... but I wonder what it's like. Don't really need the power of the Migmaster 250..... The migmaster 210 would do.....

But I wonder what that Multimaster 160 is like ?

More testing tomorrow !

[double R]

that's an interesting solution...just buy a new machine

[Nolynn3]

interesting solution ??

Well, purchasing another machine isn't the road I would normally take.... But having just had three guys who make their living as full time welders try to tune in this HH135 .... I think it's prudent. And having run it against the SP-135+ it's just plain dishartening. I wish I'd actually tested em before I bought. Unfortunately I was told that they were all pretty much the same when you got down into the 120V machines. How wrong they were.

And today we test the wire feed on this brand new HH135 and it's no where near the factory specs !! It's way fast, and the only way we could slow it down was to tighten the drag on the wire spool really tight !! I'm sure thats not what they intended.

My HH135 is for sale.... I'll take $400 for it and it's hardly been used. You pay the freight and it's yours.

[Dan]

If the wire speed is way out of range you might possibly have some defective part in your HH 135. Possibly a circuit board? Your warranty should cover such a problem. I think Rock will be back on this site tomorrow, maybe he will help you find out if there is some defect.

[Scott V]

Thin metal

Try a 84/16 argon-co2 gas could help.I had a miller 130 xp that would do great on thin body work.Copper back if posible would help.My 250 migmaster would also do great on thin metal,it was about the same as the miller.Also my Sp175 plus does great on thin stuff.The lincoln has a little better adjustment than ether of the others down low,but it's kind of a non issue if comparing those two other machines.That's because their all great on thin stuff.What I like about the esab is it did great even with a 15 foot gun with .023.I forgot to add my MK 2000a,because it was the very best of all my welders with all wires.

My worst thin welding welder at this point is my new lincoln 300 powermig.I was doing a side by side test with my sp175 plus,using .023,.030 wire,and messing with both,the little lincoln blows the big lincoln away.With .035 the 300 is super nice,atleast about even with my MK.I going to go do some more testing with the lincoln,because I have a feeling something was wrong with the drive roll pressure,or something.I bought the powermig for aluminum anyway,and it is something special when using the python gun.At this point if I was doing mild steel short arc welding,and standard spray arc the migmaster is the winner.

Sorry for getting off track,but you did have to bring up the migmaster 250.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

NOLYN3..........HOW WE DOING.......... WELL IF YOU CAN TELL ME WHAT THE OPEN CIRCUIT VOLTAGE IS IN ALL 4 RANGES OF YOUR HH...........IT IS POSSABLE YOU WON'T NEED TO PURCHASE A NEWER MACHINE...........BE IT COMPETITION OR ONE OF OURS.... YOUR CALL .......................EVEN IF YOU SELL IT LET'S MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAVE A PROBLEM FIRST SHALL WE SO SOMEONE ELSE DOESN'T SEE WHAT YOUR SEEING................ AFTER ALL THE WARRANTY ONLY GOES TO THE ORIGINAL PURCHASER WHICH IS YOU.......................THIS WAY NO ONE GETS A BAD TASTE IN THEIR MOUTH...............SOUND FAIR???????????...YOUR CALL......ROCK
[email protected]MILLERWELDS.COM

[Scott V]

Multimaster 160

My friend at the welding store has welded with one,and says it has a nice inverter arc.He did not like the fact that you could not put a longer gun on it,because both the drive rolls are not driven.
I thought it was a neat setup,for tig,and stick welding,but if I was going to mig weld mild steel I would buy a lincoln sp175 plus.That would save a bunch of money,and the lincoln welds great.My friend also likes the little lincolns the best.He also steered me to the migmaster 250,and he was right on that one.

Update on my 300 powermig,it still does not like to weld with .023-ER70-6 wire.really unstable arc.It might be the worst welding .023 wire welding machine out there.I tried everything short of getting a new download for the computer from lincoln.They should lock the guy that did the programing in with the guy that made the sp 135/175 plus welders,until he learned about what a good arc really is.I did get the .030 to work great,I am very happy about that.Because I have the little lincoln for .023 if needed.All welders have something up with all of them if you look close enough.

Now you Miller guys have something to pick on lincoln about.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

NOW SCOTT V.........WE DO NOT BASH THE COMPETITION....IF IT WAS NOT FOR COMPETITION YOU WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PURCHASE A WELDING MACHINE...............WE COMPARE MACHINES HERE NOT RIDICULE (BASH THE COMPETITION)....... BESIDES WE ALL LEARN HERE DON'T WE.................HAHAHA.... THIS IS FUN ISN'T IT............................ROCK
[email protected]

[Scott V]

Rock,

You don't know what fun is until you weld with a powermig 300 using .023! HA HA.On that size wire they should call their new tech stuff,choppy technology not chopper technology.