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  • Flux Core Mig Process Questions

    Hello,
    I recently purchased a Hobart Handler 190 unit.
    I have never used flux core wire for the MIG process.
    I have however stick welded many times, question: would one generally feel that FC Mig is an easier process (fir average oerson) to achieve decent welds with compared to Stick? Also, if one was to compair the process with stick, which electrode in Stick would the process be most similar to, 6010, 7018 etc ?
    Any suggestions for a beginner using Flux Core would be greatly appreciated, as well as the merits/disadvantages of the process in general. I believe this welder has a 3 grove feed roller accomidating .025, .030 and .035 size wire.
    Thanks!

  • #2
    I can't get to excited about Flux Core (FCAW) which is not actually consider MIG, After burning up demo roll of wire I went directly to MIG (Metal Inert Gas) or more proper GMAW (Gas Metal Arc Weld).... Fluxcore is a good general purpose concept that is good for many common types of steel... Shield Gas (GMAW) had about same proprieties as Fluxcore but has the feature of absolutely no flux that needs to be removed from weld and has a lot cleaner weld, which means you can go back over boo-boo with out having to chip flux off and it produces less splatter....

    Advantage of FCAW is some what better penetration and works well on less clean surfaces and works well in breezy conditions.. E71T-GS wire...

    Advantage of GMAW is very clean welds BUT requires cleaner preparation and not as good in breezy situations (where shield gas is blown away).... I use .030 ER70S6 for most of my general shop/backyard welds, but then I am amateur and do a lot of unknown or mild steels....

    You need to explore both concepts before getting to entrenched in just one type...

    And yes I use Flux Core when forced into it......

    Dale
    Last edited by Dale M.; 03-12-2018, 12:07 PM.
    Lives his life vicariously through his own self.

    Comment


    • #3
      I do a lot of flux-core welding, as much as I like MIG. I'm just so often wanting to get something welded quickly and back into service without bringing it into shop conditions and as clean as MIG would like.

      In a production setting, in the shop, MIG can't be beat.

      Just grab some name-brand flux-cored wire and get at it. Within the spool, you'll know all you need.
      Last edited by MAC702; 03-21-2018, 03:17 PM. Reason: typo

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks everyone, yes Dale you are correct that Flux Core is actually called FCAW, I have read of people using shielding gas with flux core wire too, why, not sure, and this isn’t what I was talking of anyway. Thanks for your input on FCAW (FLUX CORE ARC WELDING), however still wondering what stick electrode the FCAW would mimic the closest, and if most would find FCAW easier to lay nice looking beads with vs Stick? I guess I will just have to wait and figure this out myself. Just curious, that’s all.

        Thanks

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Repairtech4u View Post
          Thanks everyone, yes Dale you are correct that Flux Core is actually called FCAW, I have read of people using shielding gas with flux core wire too, why, not sure, and this isn’t what I was talking of anyway. Thanks for your input on FCAW (FLUX CORE ARC WELDING), however still wondering what stick electrode the FCAW would mimic the closest, and if most would find FCAW easier to lay nice looking beads with vs Stick? I guess I will just have to wait and figure this out myself. Just curious, that’s all.

          Thanks
          FCAW-S is a branch of welding processes, and therefore, does not "mimic" any particular electrode. Instead, like stick electrodes in SMAW, the arc character, penetration, etc. depends on the alloy and flux combination of the FCAW-S electrode wires you choose. Dale mentions one common electrode used in GMAW, but there are many. Same in FCAW-S and -G.

          Most would find it easier to use FCAW-S or -G because stick ( SMAW) requires the extra hand-eye coordination to control arc length and maintain a supply of filler metal, much of which is done by the welder in flux-core. Also, more manipulation of the rod is also required in SMAW.

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry I missed this post earlier. The first thing a stick weldor will notice is what appears to be less penetration. I say "appears" to be less. The tensile strength of FCAW is the same as 7018. I mainly use it for welding anything in the field and galvanized. I do a lot of galv and it doesn't poop on you and spit molten steel all over you. Asin stick, " When there's slag...you drag"
            Arcin' and sparkin', Rocky D <><
            Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
            IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THANK A TEACHER...
            IF YOU'RE READING THIS IN ENGLISH, THANK A SOLDIER!

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            • #7
              Youtube might be a good resource for tutorials, just make sure people seem like they know what they are doing... you should always be careful that someone on Youtube isn't trying to trick you. I once came home to a roommate who looked up "how to take the car tire off without a jack" because he didn't know how to use mine.... he got spoofed pretty bad and thankfully I pulled in the driveway at the right time.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Repairtech4u View Post
                Hello,
                I recently purchased a Hobart Handler 190 unit.
                I have never used flux core wire for the MIG process.
                I have however stick welded many times, question: would one generally feel that FC Mig is an easier process (fir average oerson) to achieve decent welds with compared to Stick? Also, if one was to compair the process with stick, which electrode in Stick would the process be most similar to, 6010, 7018 etc ?
                Any suggestions for a beginner using Flux Core would be greatly appreciated, as well as the merits/disadvantages of the process in general. I believe this welder has a 3 grove feed roller accomidating .025, .030 and .035 size wire.
                Thanks!
                MIG= Metal Inert Gas. For the term to be used correctly, the gas will be inert, no oxygen. So really, it refers to Aluminum welding with Argon, Helium, or gas mixtures of the two.

                MAG= Metal Active Gas. Contains oxygen, or component of, as in CO2, Argon Co2, or Argon O2 mixes.

                GMAW = Gas Metal Arc Welding. It is an encompassing term, as is FCAW.

                Flux Core Arc Welding. A flux in the core of the wire. Encompassing of variables types in flux contained in a wire sheathing.

                FCAW is broken down into two further simple classifications, self shielding, or gas shielded, requiring an additional external shielding gas to support the lack of shielding gas creators in the flux mix.

                You inquired about the flux. It will be Rutile based or basic for gas shielded, E7014 or a E7018 type of flux in most cases. Self shielding FCAW wires will typically be cellulose based, the E6010.

                I'm not sure if you read other posts, but your post qualifies as questions to the missing 208 questions needing to be asked and answered. Having said that, SMAW electrodes range in size as I've seen them, 1/16" to 3/4" in diameter. Some where between clean and splatter, quick and fast, needing shielding or not fits economic advantages and disadvantages.

                Many shoes will fit a foot. Finding the right shoe that suits the purpose other then covering a foot...open for debate. If you don't drop stuff on your feet who needs steel toes? For that matter, if you struggle tying laces, zippers and Velcro? What do you want, what do you need? In the case of comparing welding processes, wire feed processes typically reduce waste ( electrode stubs) offer greater control (heat input thru settings) and increase nose down continuous welding time.

                More to the point of which is easier? Hmm? That depend on who's learning, who's teaching, and how thirsty for knowledge the individual is. In my opinion, SMAW is easier to learn, understand, grasp, and be successful with. And if you wonder why I say that, review the forum and see where most questions are being asked?






                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for in-depth reply “oldguyfrom56”,
                  obviously this isnt your first rodeo as the old addage goes. I was aware of most of the differences between MAG Welding and SMAW, howerver have never done FCAW before. I know with SMAW there are many composition of fulxes used that exhibit different properties. I think you answered my question that I was most curious of, this being what type of flux in FCAW would be most similar to what flux of a SMAW rod as being a 6010. I’m familar with the red brick colored 6010’s that I remember being a great rod for usuage if one cannot prep the weld surface for whatever reason(s). I remember the 6010 and the AC usuage variant the 6011. These rods had great penetration and fast freeze/ all position welding capabilities as well as being to burn through paint and rust if needed to. Obviously prepping metal clean is always the best way to go for any welding process if allowed. I also remember the 6010 series as being used extensively for root passes in structural steel welding as well as pipe in the field. Thanks for sharing your in depth knowledge Oldguyfrom56, as well as all others that have replied to my thread previously.
                  ✌️

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Your quite welcome, felt good to release it.

                    Lincoln were Brick Red, Hobart Salmon Pink, and if you compared the two, the Hobart E6010 had a heavier coating. Wasn't much, but it was visibly larger. I didn't find the arc as aggressive, which I'm sure was due to the coating mix as well as girth.

                    Keep in mind, with regard to the Flux in the wire's core, that if you rule out the binder ingredient, think dipping the corn dog and batter, it's still not leaving much for room inside. As you mentioned different properties, the term viscous comes to mind. The flux with SMAW as well FCAW processes helps to shape and form the weld deposit, so it stands to reason, if the parameters when welding are such to prevent a solidification to occur, i.e., to much voltage, then you get saggy welds.
                    In the same breath, while you must also give considerations for the parameters for the type of depositing metal transfer, globular to spray, much like arc length changes when welding SMAW, wire stick out and arc length in FCAW equate to the same variable occurrence. More or less droplets, wetter or firmer.

                    Anyways, keep in mind, that while the rod or wire and flux has to be given it's due, it's the size and shape of weld along with how it cools that usually decides it worth in service.

                    You mentioned a new 190, that came with a roll of something didn't it? Well... I say lay metal and post some pictures.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Fellow Welders,

                      Here is a bit of a follow-on to the disambiguation of the various letters that are used to describe Flux Core welding PROCESSES and the letters that are used to describe Flux Core welding FILLER WIRES.
                      FCAW-S = The "S" stands for Self-Shielded. It is what we think of as the normal Flux Core Welding process . . . so much so that we usually leave off the -S when talking about this Flux Core process. Lincoln calls the filler wire that is used by this process their "Innershield" product line.
                      FCAW-G = The "G" stands for Gas-Shielded. The filler wire used by this process is a tubular wire that is filled with alloying elements and is gas shielded. It is a fairly specialized item. Lincoln calls this stuff their "Outershield" product line. (Note: I am not associated with Lincoln except as a satisfied owner of one of their TIG welding machines, the Square Wave 355, a piece of BEEF!)

                      Now, when we are talking about the descriptors of standard Flux Core FILLER WIRES (i.e., wires used for the FCAW-S process), we also have suffixes of "S" and "G." They, of course, have different meanings. Taking the example from Dale's entry (#2 above) lets decipher E71T-GS.
                      * The "E" means Electrode as in it is appropriately used for arc welding
                      * The "71" is the number of thousands of pounds per square inch tensile strength of properly deposited filler metal.
                      * The "T" means Tubular
                      * The "-G" means General. It does not meet any AWS-promulgated standards for Flux Core filler wire. The standards that it meets are agreed upon by the manufacturer of the wire and the purchaser (not the end-user) of the wire. Sometimes having -G wire available for use is a good thing. Other times, not so much. The good: It allows a reputable company that is developing a new wire to make it available on the market before the (sometimes glacial) AWS certification process has run its course. Example from a few years ago: Lincoln's NR233. It is basically their NR232 with minor tweekings to provide greater operator appeal. The less than good: A company in U.S.A. (Upper South Asia) makes the wire out of whatever scrap arrives in the shipping container for "Joe's Snack Shack and Welding Supply (fresh bait on Fridays)" . . . . What is the actual composition? We don't know. It could be perfect. It could be less than perfect. It has not been tested by the American Welding Society (AWS).
                      * The "-S" means Single Pass. Usually FCAW filler metal with the "S" as a suffix is limited to less than certain thicknesses, too. Sometimes those limits are pretty thin.
                      Mac702 gave good advice above (entry #3). Go with name brand wire. However, I always check. I have found quality local welding supply specialty stores selling a store-branded E71T-GS product (at a good price). For hobby applications of lawn art, it is probably acceptable. ~0le
                      "If a problem can't be solved, enlarge it." (The 34th president of the United States)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks again for the chat Oldguyfrom56, I can absorb your knowledge like a sponge, so keep it wetted out on that end!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Repairtech4u, your quite welcome. Really and truly. Conversations evolve and plenty of contributors share the credit in squeezing oranges to make juice. I admit to being shielding gas and solid wire spoiled, but I'm no stranger to the FCAW process either. A guy doesn't want the headache and hassle of cylinder procurement, A self shielding wire works. Here's a secret, ditch the grind stone and install a wire wheel. A little 5" hand held and a wire wheel cleans the smoke, splatter, flux and weld lickety split. Using common sense, eye protection is a must, face is good as well...cover up and think no grinding sparks, particulate from the stone, additional dust.
                          Not sure if it got much for mention, but they say smoking's bad for you? I harp the cord about things I know and when it comes to FCAW processes, long arcs through short stick outs, excessive voltages causing wide tall arcs, create excessive smoke with the splatter. You didn't hear me say it but, like with SMAW, size matters. Want a bigger weld run a larger wire.

                          Dig this...

                          https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=21982

                          I'm telling you, the river is deep and wide my friend. The crossing ruff. But you'll get it. And when you do post pictures!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So is dual shield the same as Outershield?
                            Hobart beta-mig 2510 Mig welder
                            Victor OA Welding/Cutting Rig
                            Century 295 amp Stick welder bought 30+ years ago

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by coxhaus View Post
                              So is dual shield the same as Outershield?

                              I'm sure that's a yes or no answer? 50/50 I get it right? Lol. No. Final answer. But I should look it up to be sure. Nah, I said final answer.
                              I base that on one thing only, Outer shield is a Lincoln term branding their wire.

                              I'm also thinking the term Dual shield by definition, refers to a wire that may or may not be used with a shielding gas, but will have the weld properties change when used with or with out a shielding gas as a by product of that result. In essence, enough flux to do the job with out a gas, but add a shielding gas and the dynamics of melting changes enough to alter chemistry and mechanical property behaviours. Something like that anyways.

                              It kind of defeats the purpose, but if you took an inner shield wire, the self shielding wire, and used a nozzle giving it gas coverage, what do you think the result would be? Yea, probably an improvement is the answer I'd choose as well.

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