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  • MM 210 Spray Transfer?

    As I ve stated before , I ve been wanting to test my MM 210 to see if it would produce spray transfer with at least an .030 wire. So on Friday, I was finally able to make it to Praxair to get the bottle of shielding gas that I needed. Wouldn t you know it, the only size bottle that they stock is a style T, which is a 330 cubic ft bottle. The dang thing is 5 ft tall. The last time I wrestled that size of bottle around was back when I was in school. They only stock this size of bottle because spray transfer is generally a production process. Now obviously, I m not wanting to fork out the cash for such a large bottle on an experiment. Once again my salesman came through for me. He was nice enough to loan me a partial bottle that they had in there test room. It turns out though that the bottle was C10 which is 90% argon/ 10% CO2. This is still a spray transfer gas, but I was wanting 98% argon/ 2% O2. Reason for the 98/2 is because it will produce spray transfer at lower parameter settings then other mixtures. And also, because it is the only gas mixture that I have ever used for spray. Anyway, since the 90/10 was free to try, I went ahead and took it, however very worried that the Co2 content of the gas was going to push spray transfer past the voltage out put of my machine. So today I set my MM 210 up with an .030 wire and the 90/10 gas and gave spray a try on some 1/4". Guess what, it worked . Now this wasn t good enough for me. I just had to give an .035 wire an attempt too. So , I set the machine up at the following parameters: voltage tap # 7 and about 62 on the wire speed. The 62 setting, on my machine, this measured out to be around 400 to 410 IPM. I measured this 6 times and each time it fell somewhere in this range. Once again the experiment was on 1/4" material. Joint design was a T joint. So I went ahead and gave it a try, and guess what, Spray transfer . So forget about the .030, the .035 works. Now, I still want the 98/2 gas because like the way the weld puddle wets out with it. Also, the final weld bead has a smoother appearance to it.

    Now, if you have been around here long enough you know I ve got some pictures to show you. I m going to post 4 of them, mainly because I m not really certain abouit the quality of the picture. For some reason my magical camera just doesn t seem to be its normal self this evening. Anyway here are the pictures. They are all T joints, on 1/4" mild steel.
    Last edited by Dan; 05-01-2009, 08:16 AM.
    MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
    Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


    PM 180C



    HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

  • #2
    2nd pic
    Last edited by Dan; 05-01-2009, 08:16 AM.
    MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
    Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


    PM 180C



    HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

    Comment


    • #3
      3rd pic
      Last edited by Dan; 05-01-2009, 08:16 AM.
      MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
      Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


      PM 180C



      HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

      Comment


      • #4
        Last one. Also, I just remembered a few more things. For one, I purchased the nozzle that recesses the contact tip an 1/8". Miller part # for this is 169724. Also, I go a # 12 shade lens for my hood. And finally, at 400 ipm with an.035 wire all my charts state this as 200 amps. I ran quite a few of these welds and the machine never shut down on me.
        Last edited by Dan; 05-01-2009, 08:17 AM.
        MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
        Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


        PM 180C



        HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

        Comment


        • #5
          Way to go Dan!

          Hey Dan,

          Cool experiment! You are certainly on the path to refuting the previous consensus that it takes at least a MM251 to achieve spray transfer.

          I am curious what one of these welds would look like sectioned. Do you have the ability to section? It would be a good opportunity for more of your great pictures! If so it would be interesting to compare one of your spray transfer welds with a short circuit weld on the same material with the same machine.
          Bill C
          "The more I learn about welding the more I find there is to learn..."

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the pics! Looks like your theory was right! I will have to see if I can round up a bottle myself, and give it a shot.


            I too would like to see the two welds side by side to compare!




            Keep up the good work!



            Chris

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dan
              Last one. Also, I just remembered a few more things. For one, I purchased the nozzle that recesses the contact tip an 1/8". Miller part # for this is 169724. Also, I go a # 12 shade lens for my hood. And finally, at 400 ipm with an.035 wire all my charts state this as 200 amps. I ran quite a few of these welds and the machine never shut down on me.
              I agree with you, Dan...98 / 2 would be better. I see also you heavy heavy mill scale on you steel, which accounts for the 'glass'.
              How much do you figure you could penetrate into the root?

              Comment


              • #8
                Dan

                Great; cant wait untill Tuesday when I get to town and get some of that gas and the different tip. What wire # are use using? Does it matter? and how will I know I have spray transfer. Thanks for Info and pictures, keep the info coming.
                Harold
                Craftsman Colormatic AC
                Victor Journyman Setup
                Syncrowave 180 SD
                MM210 With Spoolgun
                Dynasty 200 DX
                Spectrum 625 Plasma Cutter
                Miller HD Tape Measure

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Dan

                  Originally posted by harold
                  Great; cant wait untill Tuesday when I get to town and get some of that gas and the different tip. What wire # are use using? Does it matter? and how will I know I have spray transfer. Thanks for Info and pictures, keep the info coming.
                  The tip is the same, but the nozzle is longer, recessing the tip.

                  E70S-6 or E70S-2 will work, .035", or .045"

                  The spray occurs above 28 vlolts, and you will notice the wire go into globular, globs of steel coming off the end of the wire, and as you increase the voltage, you will see the globs dissapear, and the arc takes on a paint brush looking effect, and the sound will be a hiss. An occasional crackle can be heard, (i don't like the crackle, so increasing the voltage will get rid of it), but the hiss is predominate. Just be careful to keep your wire from burning back into the tip..as you see the wire drawing back increase the speed...too much wire will drive into the puddle.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Dan,

                    Great looking welds. Thanks for the comments regarding my welds. I too would like to see a comparison of the spray transfer and short circuit welds next to each other. I really don't know the difference.

                    Dave

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rocky D


                      I agree with you, Dan...98 / 2 would be better. I see also you heavy heavy mill scale on you steel, which accounts for the 'glass'.
                      How much do you figure you could penetrate into the root?
                      Rocky,

                      You just had to bring up the mill scale didn t you . I got so excited about trying it that I skipped sanding the mill scale off my first peice, and then when it actually worked, all I was thinking is were is my .035. When I put that on and it worked too, I was beyond excited and totally forgot about the mill scale. So everyone knows though when I am welding on an actual project, I always remove the mill scale.

                      I don t know about the depth of penetration yet. However, I can tell you that when I ran out of 1/4" material, I used a peice of 3/16" for the vertical leg on one of my T joints, and if you look at the backside of the weld on the 3/16 vertical leg, the weld penetrated thru the entire thickness. I guess we could assume for now that Im getting decent penetration to the root.
                      MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                      Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                      PM 180C



                      HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Dan

                        Originally posted by harold
                        Great; cant wait untill Tuesday when I get to town and get some of that gas and the different tip. What wire # are use using? Does it matter? and how will I know I have spray transfer. Thanks for Info and pictures, keep the info coming.
                        Harold,

                        Im using an E 70S - 6 wire. Also, I forgot to mention that the nozzle that I bought has a 1/2" orifice. There is also one available with a 5/8" orifice, but I don t like it for T joints. At work I use the 5/8" orifice for outside corners, and butt joints. Also, you want this recessed nozzle because you hold a longer stick out ( about 3/4" in this instance) with Spray transfer. By recessing the contact tip back into the nozzle an 1/8" it brings the the nozzle an 1/8 closer to the work peice to help improve the gas coverage of your weld. Don t forget to set your gas flow to around 35 or 40 CFH.
                        MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                        Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                        PM 180C



                        HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Re: Dan

                          Originally posted by Rocky D


                          The tip is the same, but the nozzle is longer, recessing the tip.

                          E70S-6 or E70S-2 will work, .035", or .045"

                          The spray occurs above 28 vlolts, and you will notice the wire go into globular, globs of steel coming off the end of the wire, and as you increase the voltage, you will see the globs dissapear, and the arc takes on a paint brush looking effect, and the sound will be a hiss. An occasional crackle can be heard, (i don't like the crackle, so increasing the voltage will get rid of it), but the hiss is predominate. Just be careful to keep your wire from burning back into the tip..as you see the wire drawing back increase the speed...too much wire will drive into the puddle.
                          Rocky,

                          An .045 wire would be a poor choice for our smaller MM 210. Reason being because all my info shows that .045 transitions into spray at about 200 + amps.

                          Great description on the spray transfer. That crackle sound is quite annoying when it does happen isn t it? Only way to get rid of it with the MM 210 though is to reduce the wire speed some, because tap # 7 is the last voltage setting. I was able to get the wire to around 420 IPM then it started crackling some. So back down to around 410 IPM the wire went.
                          MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                          Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                          PM 180C



                          HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by russell
                            Great job Dan!!! Excellent looking welds,an on top of mill scale no less. Bet the folks at Miller are interested in this. Glad it worked for you.

                            That recessed nozzle you bought ,will the same one work for a 250x ?





                            russell
                            Russell,

                            The MM 210 and MM 250X use the same gun (M-25), so the answer is yes, the nozzle will work on your 250X. By the way even though it worked, I still want your MM 250X .

                            Oh yeah, I almost forgot how about the Syncrowave 180 too?
                            Last edited by Dan; 12-16-2002, 05:08 AM.
                            MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                            Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                            PM 180C



                            HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Way to go Dan!

                              Originally posted by BillC
                              Hey Dan,

                              Cool experiment! You are certainly on the path to refuting the previous consensus that it takes at least a MM251 to achieve spray transfer.

                              I am curious what one of these welds would look like sectioned. Do you have the ability to section? It would be a good opportunity for more of your great pictures! If so it would be interesting to compare one of your spray transfer welds with a short circuit weld on the same material with the same machine.
                              Bill C

                              I have a 7" X 12" bandsaw so getting a cross section picture of both modes of metal transfer shouldn t be a problem. However, I m going to hold off on this until I get the bottle of 98/2 that I want.
                              MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                              Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                              PM 180C



                              HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                              Comment

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