Whip and pause....7010 vertical up

[Tim]

Doing an inverted Tee fillet weld on quarter inch plate.
Strike and arc...Pre-heat the metal...Swing the tip of the rod to the left...Back to the right...Whip up one electrode diameter...Bring it back down to fill in the crater. Seems easy enough. Wish it was
I am running 85 amps...Eighth inch rod...7010. Much in the way of undercutting and the beads are real narrow. I made the arc length just a little longer but I end up with a piled up mess of weld bead and still have undercutting. Since Wensday of this week I made a two inch weld bead that look like my instructor did it. With that being a "Ray of hope" I thought I would be able to do it again after lunch. No such luck.
Any suggestions? I need to know before Monday.
Thanks
Tim

[Ed Heimbach]

What machine are you using? This I ask because a small 'buzz box' welder usually has a fairly low open circut voltage. The OCV is what makes it easy to do the 'whipping' motions with the rod, as you oscilate from side to side a higher OCV allows you to pull the arc out a bit further, letting the pool cool a bit more, giving you more control.
A machine with a lower OCV won't allow you to do this as much, for if you lenghten the arc too much, it goes out.
With that out of the way, try lenghtening the distance you are whipping the rod I go up to 3/ 8" v's if I am running a little hot.
This brings up the next item, are you using a ziz- zag motion, or you doing "v's", a vee type motion gives the crater a little more time to cool, reducing under cut.
If you have access to a camera an can post a photo, that may help someone here get a better idea what it is you are doing.

[Ken O]

Try turning your machine down a little, and/or whiping up farther. One rod diameter isnt enough, try maybe an inch or so. Is this the same machine you used before lunch? All machines run a little different
I recently retired, 7010 used to be called "B&W rod". I welded lots of boiler headers and tubes with this rod. I havent seen it around for a while, usually you tig the root and 7018 the rest the way out.

[Tim]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed Heimbach
[B]What machine are you using? This I ask because a small 'buzz box' welder usually has a fairly low open circut voltage. The OCV is what makes it easy to do the 'whipping' motions with the rod, as you oscilate from side to side a higher OCV allows you to pull the arc out a bit further, letting the pool cool a bit more, giving you more control.
A machine with a lower OCV won't allow you to do this as much, for if you lenghten the arc too much, it goes out.
With that out of the way, try lenghtening the distance you are whipping the rod I go up to 3/ 8" v's if I am running a little hot.
This brings up the next item, are you using a ziz- zag motion, or you doing "v's", a vee type motion gives the crater a little more time to cool, reducing under cut.
If you have access to a camera an can post a photo, that may help someone here get a better idea what it is you are doing.

Ed:
The machine is a Miller...304. OCV is 79.6. Something I noticed was when I stopped to fill in the undercutting, It piled up the bead and seemed like the undercutting got worse. I pulled back on the arc and didnt hesitate so long. The molten metal would fall and fill in the undercut but.. For some reason I couldnt figure out how I did it and therefore I messed up time and time again.
I dont want to run to my instructor everytime I turn around because if I do get a job welding I wont have someone around all the time to help me.
Tim

[Ed Heimbach]

Tim, definatly a good machine you are using, try lowering the amps just a bit.
How old are the rods that you are using? 7010 isn't as picky about moisture as some rods are, but I've seen night&day difference in the way that a new can of rods will burn, compared with an old can.
Try changing the electrode angle, hold the rod at a steeper angle to the joint, let the force of the arc help hold the molten metal till it freezes.
Do you have anybody that can watch as you weld? It usually helps to get another set of eyes on the project, as sometimes
" we can't see the forest because the trees are in the way".
Good luck, I hope this has been helpful.

[Tim]

Ed...

The rods are new...Fresh out of the container. My instructor has watched me on occassion but I dont want to get him to watch to much.
I think one problem is the machines at school have those "collet" style stingers on them (I am going to ask my instructor monday if I can have an old style stinger put on the cable). I have a hard time handling it. Also...Getting comfortable is another issue. I was outside earlier running some vertical up fillets with my Bobcat and they came out looking pretty good. I used both 7010's and some 6011's on DCEP (or as they use to call it back in the day...DC reverse). I would weld a few inches of bead then do a restart. One thing I learned about restarts...If you dont do them just right...There wont be much in the way of penetration.
Found that out on a horizontal fillet break test last tuesday
Tim

[Ken O]

The 304 is the most popular machine at the sites I've worked at. Usually there are 8 pack banks of therm everywhere. They are excellent machines. It seem they work, or dont, period.
Dont be afraid to ask the instucter for help, you might struggle for a long time befor you find out what you are doing wrong, in other words, wasted time.
You said you long arced and it seemed to help, I would suggest you never do this, long arcing makes porasity.
Another posibility that your machine chaged duing lunch, is not as many people are welding when you got back, less load, higher amps. I could tell when it was lunch or quitting time, the machine would get about ten amps hotter, but, there are from 20 to 200 welders on the projects.

[Roger]

Tim, squeaky wheel gets the grease applies to students. Yes the instructor has many students but a couple minutes coaching puts you back on track prerfecting good habits.

[Guest]

Tim, I agree with Roger, Ed and Ken, you need to practice pulling out of your puddle long enough to let it cool some. It takes timing, and rythm, and of course lots of practice.

Also, these folks have given you excellent counsel about going to your instructor...the time to ask questions is now...not on the job site. The hardest part of learning to weld is patience...you want it yesterday....so the time to make mistakes is now, when you're expected to make mistakes...and we learn by our mistakes...I well know that one! I sure have learned alot. Besides, instructors love showing off their knowledge!