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  • 3&4g 7018 Ac

    HI GUYS. THIS IS MY FIRST POST SO I'LL INTRODUCE MYSELF. MY NAME IS MATT, I'VE BEEN WELDING FOR THE LAST 4 YEARS, THROUGH MY HIGH SCHOOL. GRADUATED LAST YEAR. I'M NOT A NOVICE WELDER, AND HAVE DONE SOME INDUSTRIAL WORK AND SOME CUSTOM TUBE FRAME FABRICATION. I CAN ARC/MIG/TIG/OXY WELD, WITH MOST OF MY SKILL IN ARC AND MIG, SOME LIMITED TIG, AND OXY.

    NOT SURE HOW MANY OF YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE SKILLS USA/VICA ORGANIZATION, BUT IT IS A TRADE CLUBS ORGANIZATION THAT PUTS ON CONTESTS EACH YEAR. I WON MY STATE COMPETITION AND PLACED 2ND AT NATIONALS LAST YEAR. I WAS INVITED TO BE PART OF THE PROCESS TO SELECT ONE PERSON TO REPRESENT THE UNITED STATES AT THE WORLD SKILLS COMPETITION IN SWITZERLAND NEXT YEAR. RIGHT NOW THERE ARE 19 GUYS IN THE PRELIMINARYS.

    MY PROBLEM IS WITH THE 2 7018 PLATES REQUIRED. THESE ARE SET WELD PARAMETERS SO DONT JUST TELL ME TO CHANGE THEM. THE PLATES ARE 3/8" PLATE, 60 DEGREE V GROOVES WITH 3/32" ROOT FACE. ROD IS 3/32" 7018 THAT MUST BE RUN ON AC.
    MY PROBLEM IS THE POROSITY STEMMING FROM THE AC CURRENT. IT SHOWS UP AT RANDOM TIMES, UNPREDICTABLY. I CAN RUN SEVERAL RODS CLEAN AND THEN HAVE ONE WITH A BELT OF POROSITY THROUGH MOST OF IT. THE 3G PLATE HAS A ROOT GAP OF 1/8" AT THE START, 5/32" AT THE FINISH. IF YOU LOOK AT THE PICTURES IN THE PAGE I'M GOING TO LINK TO, THE PICTURES ARE NAMED SO THAT YOU CAN TELL WHAT THEY ARE. THE WELD SEQUENCE WENT LIKE THIS: ONE WELD CLEAN, ONE WELD DIRTY, ONE WELD CLEAN, ONE WELD DIRTY. THIS IS WHEN I BEGAN TAKING PICTURES. YOU CAN SEE THE POROSITY IN THE GROUND OUT AREA FOR THE TIE IN. I RAN ANOTHER ROD AND GROUND IT, AND IT WAS CLEAN AS YOU CAN SEE. THERE IS ALSO A PICTURE OF THE ENTIRE ROOT PASS, A PICTURE OF THE ENTIRE ROOT FACE, AND A PICTURE OF THE ROOT PASS GROUND OUT TO SHOW THE 2 AREAS OF POROSITY. SORRY THE FLASH MADE IT HARD TO SEE.
    THERE ARE ALSO PICTURES OF THE 3G CAP PASS, THE 4G CAP PASS, THE 4G ROOT PASS, AND THE 2G TIG ROOT PASS. ANY COMMENTS ON THESE ARE WELCOME, I HAVE NEVER RUN WEAVES BEFORE, ALWAYS STRINGERS, SO THE WEAVES ARENT PRETTY. THE 4G PROBLEM IS WITH ROOT CONCAVITY. ITS BAD ENOUGH TO CAUSE CONCERN, AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE 4G ROOT PICTURE. LIKE I SAID, I HAVE LIMITED TIG, AND MOSTLY ON ALUMINUM, SO THE TIG ROOT ISNT NICE EITHER.

    http://thisdysfunctional.org/skillswelding/

    ANY COMMENTS ARE APRECIATED-

    MATT

  • #2
    I'm not going to speak to any one plate, specifically, but give you my opinion overall. What I see is, first, you are trying too hard. Which gives you the irregularity in deposition and width of your weld. You will find that when you can concentrate less on what you are doing, your weld will improve. How? practice, practice, practice. The torch will become a feather in your hand. You will be thinking about what's for dinner, rather than where the arc is. Lo-Hy on AC is a little messier than on DC but I think what told about always running stringers, is IMHO not hard and fast. You CAN run weaves and especially if you are getting porosity, which could be from bad rod, or mill scale, dirty backup bar. As you travel along your weld make small arcs (curves) back and forth to stir it up. This is something you have to see, to really understand what I'm talking about. You know you have arrived when your slag will peel up behind you by itself.
    As to bad rod, Lo-Hy can only be out of the oven for 4 hours before it will soak up hydrogen from the atmosphere, then you have to pop it back in the oven again, but code says you can only do that for a few times before you must discard it. (AWSD1.1)
    7018 should look smooth when done.

    Comment


    • #3
      ROCKY- IRREGULARITY IN SIZE AND DEPOSITION? I DONT KNOW, MAYBE YOUR TALKING ABOUT THE TIE IN'S? IT TAKES 5 RODS TO GO THE LENGTH OF THAT PLATE, SO THERE ARE 5 TIE INS IN THE ROOT PICTURE, I PERSONALLY DONT THINK THEY ARE VERY IRREGULAR AT ALL. IF YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE EXCESIVE PENETRATION IN THE START OF THE 3 AND 4G PLATES, I WAS EXPERIMENTING WITH RUNNING THE WELDS HOT TO PREVENT POROSTIY. THE RODS ARE FROM AN OVEN, ONLY OUT AND HOUR MAX BEFORE THEY ARE USED. I WILL NOTE THIS IS NOT A TRUE ROD OVEN, BUT A 2'x1 1/2'x1 1/2' STEEL BOX OF 1/4" PLATE WITH A FLOOD LAMP IN IT, BUT IT STAYS PRETTY HOT.
      THERE IS NO BACKING PLATE, AS THESE ARE ALL OPEN ROOT, AND I HAVE SO FAR RESERVED REMOVAL OF THE MILL SCALE FROMTHE ROOT AND START AND STOP TABS FOR THE TIG PLATES, ITS JUST SO TIME CONSUMING. SEEMS TO ME IF THIS WERE THE SOUCE OF THE POROSITY, IT WOULD BE MORE UNIFORM AND LESS SPARATIC FROM PASS TO PASS ?
      ON THE TRYING TOO HARD ISSUE, YEH, I AM, BUT I CANT HELP IT. I PUT OFF COLLEGE FOR A YEAR FOR THIS, AND ITS PRETTY IMPORTANT TO ME, SO I FIND MYSELF WITH HAND FATIGUE FROM GRIPPING THE STINGER SO HARD, SHAKING, AND OFTEN MY BREATHING IS HARSH. I'LL START TO HOLD MY BREATH AND NOT REALIZE IT UNTIL I NEED TO BREATH AGAIN....
      NEVER DO ANY OF THAT NORMALLY, BUT WHAT CAN I SAY? TELLING YOURSELF ITS JUST ANOTHER PLATE DOESNT WORK, CAUSE ITS NOT.
      NOT WORRIED AT ALL ABOUT THE DESTRUCTIVE TESTS,
      JUST REALLY NEED THESE PLATES TO PASS THE RADIOGRAPHS....
      WAY TOO MUCH STRESS....

      MATT

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by FIXXXXAH
        ROCKY- IRREGULARITY IN SIZE AND DEPOSITION? I DONT KNOW, MAYBE YOUR TALKING ABOUT THE TIE IN'S? IT TAKES 5 RODS TO GO THE LENGTH OF THAT PLATE, SO THERE ARE 5 TIE INS IN THE ROOT PICTURE, I PERSONALLY DONT THINK THEY ARE VERY IRREGULAR AT ALL.


        MATT
        Matt this is what I mean by size and depositon. 7018 should look like this.

        Comment


        • #5
          Matt

          lo- hydrogen rods need to be stored in a oven at 250 degrees F. I would guess that a flood lamp isn t going to be able to create this amount of heat.
          MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
          Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


          PM 180C



          HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

          Comment


          • #6
            No need to guess about rod oven temp. less than $10 for nice little dial thermometer.

            Talk about relaxed. I've seen welders working for weeks building barges stick welding. Turn head lift helmet light a smoke or drink a coke. Welds still looked exactly the same. They probably weld in their sleep.

            Comment


            • #7
              FIXXXXAH,
              I see nothing wrong in your technique that can't be fixed with more practice. Welding has to become as automatic to you as walking. If we all had to think " unweight right foot, pick right foot up, swing right leg forward, ect." , there would be a lot of tripping going on. That is exactly what is happening, you are tripping,proficiency will only come with much time spent welding.
              Some folks pick things up easier than others, I didn't get really good at 5g&6g untill I burned about a half ton of wire. That was 6010, when I had to qualify with 7018, the learning curve wasn't as steep, but it was still time consuming.
              If you want the opinion of those who answer qualification questions dailey, go to www.aws.org click on forums, then click on" aws bulliten board, bbs grand central", the menu there will give you quite a few options, one of which is testing questions/ qualification information.
              I hope this has been helpful.
              Last edited by Ed Heimbach; 10-19-2002, 03:30 PM.
              work safe, always wear your safety glasses.


              Edward Heimbach

              Comment


              • #8
                THANKS FOR THE ROD TEMP INFO GUYS. THAT OVEN IS PRETTY HOT, BUT I'LL THROW A CANDY TEMP IN ON MONDAY AND SEE WHAT REALITY IS.

                ROCKY, IS THAT 3/32 7018 AC VERT UP? I CAN LAY DOWN A FLAT [HORIZONTAL] T FILLET OR LAP JOINT ALL DAY LONG, ITS THE AC THATS MESSING ME UP. IF YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO THROW A PLATE OUT WITH DCRP SO THAT YOU DONT DOUBT MY ABILITY, I WILL TRY TO MAKE SOME TIME.

                ED... IF YOU CHECK OUT THE TECH BOARD OVER AT AWS, YOU'LL SEE MY POST ON THAT BOARD... I DONT KNOW, I'VE BEEN RATHER DISSAPOINTED WITH THE INFO ON THE AWS BOARD, THATS WHY I CAME OVER HERE TOO. I HAVENT POSTED IN THE INSPECTION SECTION THOUGH, I WILL TRY IT OUT AND SEE WHAT I GET.

                I DONT THINK ABOUT THE WELD, JUST WATCH THE KEYHOLE AND THE EDGES OF THE WELD POOL. MY BIG PROBLEM RIGHT NOW IS GETTING CONTROL OF MY SHAKING, I CAN PRACTISE FINE BUT WHEN I START TO DO A OFFICAIL PLATE, I START TO SHAKING ALOT, THINKING TOO MUCH, GETTING INTO A RUSH, ECT.
                I CANT HELP IT, JUST THE WAY I AM ABOUT THIS

                KEEP THE INPUT COMING GUYS. WHAT ROD ANGLE WOULD YOU GUYS USE FOR THIS WELD? I HAVE GIVEN THOUGHT TO THE POSSIBILITY THAT A SLIGHT VARIATION IN ROD ANGLE COULD POSSIBLY EFFECT HOW THE FUME CLOUD SHEILDS THE ROOT SIDE OF THE WELD, POSSIBLY ALOWING ATMOSPHERIC GASES TO SNEAK IN? THE AC IS MAKING THIS KILLER....

                MATT

                Comment


                • #9
                  Matt,
                  One more question, what kind of machine are you welding with?
                  Some welders have a low OCV on a. c. , this can contribute to difficulty in operating.
                  Btw, went to aws, saw your posts(I haven't been there in a while), some very good answers and insight there as well. I wish I could be more helpful.
                  Last edited by Ed Heimbach; 10-20-2002, 03:12 PM.
                  work safe, always wear your safety glasses.


                  Edward Heimbach

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Matt,

                    I am a novice student welder, so please pardon me if this is a stupid question:

                    In your 3Gcap picture there are three fingers of weld bead above the main weld. What are these? restarts? terminations?

                    Thanks!
                    Bill C
                    "The more I learn about welding the more I find there is to learn..."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      THOSE ARE STARTS, FEATHERED IN TO PREVENT ANY POROSITY FROM THE START CONTAMINATING THE ACTUAL WELD-
                      MATT

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks, Matt!
                        Bill C
                        "The more I learn about welding the more I find there is to learn..."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          FIXXXAH........OK, BEFORE MY EYE'S HEADED SOUTH AND I COULD SEE REAL GOOD THE ONLY TIME I WAS EVER SHAKEIE WAS WHEN I WAS LAYING ON THE GROUND WELDING ON MY SIDE....... MY RIGHT ARM WOULD GET SO TIRED IT WOULD SHAKE....... WELL MAYBE THAT WAS FROM THE COLD......... ANYWAY..............DO THIS AND IT WORKED FOR ME WHEN I WAS YOUNGER........DON'T LAUGH NOW........... LAY THE PROJECT OUT, THINK ABOUT IT IN YOUR MIND AS YOU LAY IT OUT ( HOW YOUR GOING TO DO IT) CLOSE YOUR EYES, THINK FOR 60 SECONDS I CAN DO THIS AFTER 30 OF THOSE SECONDS THEN SAY YES I CAN........ I'VE DONE THIS BEFORE............. PICK IT UP AND LET HER RIP.......... NOW MY GRAND KIDS LIKE TO WATCH A SHOW WITH TRAIN ENGINES (TALKING TRAIN ENGINES) ON IT, AND THEY TALK AND IT IS ONE OF THEIR THINGS THAT SAY I CAN, I CAN, YES I CAN........ IT IS NOT THE SAME THING.......... AS WITH ALL THINGS EXPERIENCE COUNTS YOU WILL GET THERE............. LOOK HOW FAR YOU'VE COME SINCE THE VICA....... DID I SEE YOUR PICTURE IN THE HOBART NEWS AS THE WINNER OF THE VICA CONTEST???????? THEY ARE BIG SUPPORTERS OF THE CONTEST AND IT IS WORTH WHILE.............. PICK WISELY OF YOUR CONTESTANTS..... NOW ENJOY THE CHALLENGE, TRY THE ROD OVEN TEMP....... ANGLE YOU CAN CHANGE SLIGHTLY ON SOME SCRAP AND SEE......... ARE YHOU DREAMING THIS STUFF IN YOUR SLEEP YET....... WHEN YOU DO MANY PROJECTS SEEM DO ABLE IN THE MORNINGS OVER COFFEE. AFTER ALL THE MIND SELDOM SLEEPS (ONLY PARTS OF IT)... BE SAFE OUT THERE........RELAX YOU'LL GET IT..............ROCK[email protected]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ROCK- THANKS FOR THE PEP TALK WHERE DID YOU SEE THOSE PICTURES? I'VE WANTED TO SEE THEM FOREVER! I TOOK SECOND PLACE IN THE SECONDARY THIS YEAR, WERE YOU AT THE SHOW? MY NERVES ARE WHAT MESSED ME UP THERE TOO, THE FIRST DAY THE WELDERS WENT IN, WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A ADJUSTMENT DAY, TO GET USED TO THE MACHINES, THE AREA, READ A PRINT, AND TACK UP THE MAIN PROJECT. WE DID A ARC PROJECT, A FLUX CORE PROJECT, AND A TIG PROJECT. NEITHER THE ARC NOR FLUX CORE PROJECTS FROM THIS DAY COUNTED, but THE TIG WAS THE only TIG WE GOT TO DO, AND THIS IS WHAT I HAD TO DO FIRST PROJECT, FIRST DAY, WITH NERVES ON HIGH, I WAS SHAKING LIKE MAD, AND NEEDLESS TO SAY, IT WAS JUST UGLY I THINK THAT IS A BAD WAY TO DO IT, THERE SHOULD BE A ADJUSTMENT PROJECT AND A REAL PROJECT, JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, AND THEY USED TO HAVE IT THAT WAY

                            IF YOU HAVE A LINK TO THOSE PICS, I'D REALLY APRECIATE IT-

                            MATT

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              FIXXXAH......... WOW YOU WANT ME (ME) TO RECALL WHERE I SEEN THOSE PICTURE'S....... BESIDE IN THE HOBART NEWS... DON'T ASK MUCH DO YOU.........WELL FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH IF ANYONE HAS IT YOU CAN CONTACT MARTY BAKER AT THE HOBART LIBRARY.........IF ANYONE HAS IT SHE WILL........ THIS SHOULD BE (HOPE IT IS) AN ARCHIVED AWARD WITH A PHOTO........ I'M NOT SURE PERHAPS THE AWS HAS THE PICTURES ALSO AS THIS WAS A PROJECT THEY HAVE A HAND IN ALSO........ SEEM SOME OF THOSE PROJECTS SETTING IN DIFFERENT ANALYSIS AREA'S,,,,,,, HAHAHA... LIKE X-RAY........ ROCKWELL HARDNESS AREA'S....... EVEN A PROJECT (VICA CONTEST) SETTING HERE AT MILLER............. GOOD LUCK IN THE SEARCH........
                              SOMETIMES THOSE PEP TALKS WORK.......... KINDA LIKE TALKING WHILE YOU WELD.........WELL MAYBE HOLLERING AT SOME ONE FROM UNDER THE HOOD......... YOU WILL GET THERE IT COMES WITH EXPERIENCE AND PRACTICE.......... FOR THE RECORD I AM NOT A GOOD ALUMINUM TIG WELDER.......... BUT I PARACTICE EVERY CHANCE I GET...... AND I EVEN UNDERSTAND HOW IT WORKS...... I FIND MY SELF SAYING TO MYSELF.......... BREATH, BREATH..........HAHAHA........MY BROTHER'S USUALLY ASK WHO ARE YOU TALKING TOO......................OH WELL ANOTHER STORY...... BE SAFE OUT THERE AND DON'T GIVE UP.........ROCK..........
                              [email protected]

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