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C/25 or CO/2

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  • C/25 or CO/2

    I would like to hear from those who used both of them and have first hand experience how they stack up against each other.
    I wouldn't mind to get better penetration (plus for co/2), but welding thin sheet metal may be causing burn thru.
    Is penetration with co/2 much better to a point that it is worth investing money in 2nd tank? Any other advantages of one over the other?
    Thanks

  • #2
    When I still had my 135, I ran CO² on it. It was fine on thin stuff, just dialed it down accordingly. C-25 has less spatter inherent in the process, but good technique with CO² also yields relatively spatter free welds.

    Hank
    ...from the Gadget Garage
    MM 210 w/3035, BWE
    HH 210 w/DP 3035
    TA185TSW
    Victor O/A "J" series, SuperRange
    Avatar courtesy of Bob Sigmon...

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    • #3
      You can't have too many tanks anyway. I ran CO2 for many years and then exchanged it for C-16 (my Airgas' only steel mix) when I was doing a lot of thinner stuff. I never should have exchanged, but gotten a second cylinder instead. Now, I'm up to over a dozen cylinders of various gasses and mixes, and use the CO2 as often as I can. It's the best value for general-purpose GMAW.

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      • #4
        One cylinder of CO2, one cylinder of argon, plus a gas mixer makes life simple.
        What do I know I am just an electronics technician.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Mike W View Post
          One cylinder of CO2, one cylinder of argon, plus a gas mixer makes life simple.
          Not when you have four wirefeeders and a maxstar.

          Comment


          • #6
            I've got both C-25 and CO2 on my cart for the SP175+. I started out with it on C-25, and then got CO2 later on. Honestly, I have not had the C-25 hooked back up at all since I got the CO2. I must say that I like CO2... and 20lbs of CO2 will last a lot longer than 80CF of C-25 for the same refill price.

            CO2 has a little more spatter, and the beads don't look *quite* as "pretty" as wtih C-25, but that's just picking nits... the appearance of the CO2 beads is certainly more than acceptable.

            One thing I did do when I got my CO2 cylinder was get a Smith #H2051 regulator/flowmeter so I could avoid the problems with the standard C-25 regulator freezing on CO2 as others have experienced. I got it on eBay for about $35, brand new.

            I got my CO2 bottle pretty cheap... fished it out of a demolition dumpster where they were tearing down the old restaurant/bar at the airport where I work. It looked pretty rough, (it must have sat in the restaurant through the flood of '93... it was covered with flood mud) so I guess the foreman just tossed it. Anyway, I cleaned it up, brushed it off, and got it looking pretty good. Took it in to Praxair for a refill, paid $10 hydrotest fee (the cylinder was 6 years out of hydro) and $20 for the refill, and took home a full bottle of CO2 in exchange. So, keep your eyes open... CO2 cylinders probably aren't that hard to come by cheap if you keep looking.
            Brian
            _________________
            Hobart Stickmate LX 235AC/160DC
            Lincoln SP175 Plus
            Hobart (Smith) torch set on Propane
            Oxweld C-32 torch (retired, but still ready for service)
            Ryobi 14" Chop Saw
            HF (Chicago Electric) Metal Cutting Circular Saw

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            • #7
              Originally posted by BKD View Post
              I must say that I like CO2... and 20lbs of CO2 will last a lot longer than 80CF of C-25 for the same refill price.

              CO2 has a little more spatter, and the beads don't look *quite* as "pretty" as wtih C-25, but that's just picking nits... the appearance of the CO2 beads is certainly more than acceptable. .
              Did you notice any difference in penetration a specialy while welding on thicker stuff in 1/8" to 1/4" range? If yes, did that resulted in a stronger welds?
              Last edited by lwj; 10-15-2006, 08:44 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by lwj View Post
                Did you notice any difference in penetration a specialy while welding on thicker stuff in 1/8" to 1/4" range? If yes, did that resulted in stronger welds?
                Yes and no.

                Any weldment can be welded with any shielding gas that is appropriate for the application. The "strength" of the weld does not depend on the shielding gas used. It is entirely dependent on the man running the machine.

                Penetration is a function of fusion, not shielding gas. CO² alone is a reactive gas, and tends to increase the heat delivered to the work, more so than if you were to use C-25 at the same welder settings.

                As for "stronger" welds, a good weld is a good weld. ER70S-6 = 70KSI strength. The wire does not care what gas is used to burn it.

                As for "thicker" stuff, I don't think of mild steel as "thick" 'till it gets past .375". Anything thinner than that should be easily welded with any 180-class machine, the gas notwithstanding.

                Hank
                ...from the Gadget Garage
                MM 210 w/3035, BWE
                HH 210 w/DP 3035
                TA185TSW
                Victor O/A "J" series, SuperRange
                Avatar courtesy of Bob Sigmon...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lwj View Post
                  Did you notice any difference in penetration a specialy while welding on thicker stuff in 1/8" to 1/4" range? If yes, did that resulted in a stronger welds?
                  I really couldn't say that I've noticed a difference in that regard... like I said, I hooked up the CO2 cylinder and haven't looked back yet. I plan on saving the C-25 for whenever I get some really thin stuff to weld. I've got .030 wire set up in my machine, and according to the settings chart inside the door on the machine, you can actually weld thicker material with C-25 than with CO2 using that wire size (Lincoln SP175+). I've never ran any side-by-side tests on coupons to test the penetration one gas vs. another.

                  What I can say for sure is that if I'd gotten my CO2 cylinder first, I would not have bought the C-25 cylinder, as CO2 has been covering 100% of my usage requirements since I've gotten it.
                  Brian
                  _________________
                  Hobart Stickmate LX 235AC/160DC
                  Lincoln SP175 Plus
                  Hobart (Smith) torch set on Propane
                  Oxweld C-32 torch (retired, but still ready for service)
                  Ryobi 14" Chop Saw
                  HF (Chicago Electric) Metal Cutting Circular Saw

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It really all depends on what you are using it for. Depends on the thickness of the metal too. I have welded with many different gases and wires so to me I look at it as what type of work are you going to be using it for? If it is for thin material then go with 75/25 cause you can get a good quality bead while staying in short arc mode. If your machine gets above 24 volts and allows you to get into spray arc mode then again, go with 75/25. Personally, I cant stand co2. It creates alot of smoke and alot of spatter. It is good to have if your machine doesn't run hot enough for spray arc cause you may be able to weld slightly thicker material and get good fusion. I would say don't look at the cost.."alot of companies do"...and it pisses welders off cause the old saying goes..you get what you pay for. So to sum it up, if you are welding at home with a good machine that provides both short and spray arc modes and you want a pretty weld...go with 75/25. If your machine doesn't provide spray arc transfer mode and only if you need better fusion on thicker material go with co2. Also, co2 is not ideal for thinner material so keep that in mind.

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