Spray Transfer mode

[Will]

Bob (deerex475guy) and I tried out his new MM251 in spray transfer today. His camera is out of service, so I'll post a few pics of the results. We used .035 wire, and 98%argon,2%oxygen for gas. Bob has the voltage and wire speed settings, so I'll let him post those. The first post is half inch done in a single pass. It was beveled.

[Will]

This is 3/8 inch

[Will]

And finally 1/4 inch.

[Planet X]

Your camera makes some great pics. You fellas try any t-joints yet? Might want to give those some dose of spray bit easier than flat butt joints puddle gets pretty fluid and that vertical side helps to corral it .

[deere_x475guy]

Will thanks for taking the pics and posting them. Your camera does a great job with getting the weld detail.

Planet X...haven't tired anything other then the beveled butt joint yet. I just got set up for spray transfer and Will and I were testing out settings. Most came pretty close to what the Miller slide chart says. We pretty much got the spray transfer mode right away. It was very easy to hear and see the difference bettween that and short circuit and globular. This week has been very busy with my daughter graduating and next week I will be helping her move to another city for her new job so I suspect that I won't be getting much more done. I plan on doing T joints next then corner joints. One thing Will learned real quick is that in spray transfer you absolutly need welding gloves and the hand shielf....ouch....

Anyway here are the settings we used. I am sure they will vary from machine to machine. Also on those welds the mill scale was left on and for best results the mill scale should have been removed.

All welding was done with 98/2 mix and .035 wire.

1/8" 25.0/429 (at recommended setting it went between
short circut and globular)
1/4" 25.8/440
3/8" 29.5/520 (.045 wire is recommended my chart)
1/2" 29.5/560 (.045 wire is recommended my chart)

I am sure I will adjust these more as I continue learning this.

Bob

[Planet X]

With the mix you are using you may want to try an intial setting of something like 350wfs/25v.
Something else would be to set your machine to wfs 350 and without touching ground, trigger your gun for 10 seconds and measure how much wire you get-should be around 60 inches long. 60x6 =360.
The other check would be the OCV/weld voltage stuff and others like Dan have documented that procedure here in previous posts which I'm sure you allready know.
Each machine has its own actual values-who knows maybe yours will match up to your digital meters +- 10%.
Knowledge about the above two things will jump start your mastery of your machine and the "two primary welding controls".

I really wish you had decided to get a higher energy gas mix like Airgas 'steelmix' then we could have had a blue vs. red 'cage match'

Splatter with spray may mean volts to low. However you set the volts too high you'll get a quite 'whoosh' sound with a long arc length and really runny puddle.
Gets some good gloves & #11 shield and have fun exploring your new mig process options.

[Guest]

Something else to keep in mind, is that the intensity of the light will rot your clothes and cook the color out of them. We found that blue coveralls were in order to protect your clothes from the light....better than frying expensive leathers.

I suppose you already found out about flannel shirts and welding.

[Scott V]

PlanetX,you guys really need to try a yellow one in the spray transfer battle.Of course all your setting on the migmaster 250 will be in the half thottle settings.with .035 wire and about any spray gas you use.In fact since I have owned one with 90/10 gas with .035 wire your setting is about 6 on the WFS,and course tap in the middle,with the fine tap at 6.Thats about 60% power output.Where is your guys output knob at with 90/10?probably almost at the max setting?To me it has as much as my 300 powermig when spraying.Let's just say it's got all sorts of reserve power,and I really don't know how they rate that thing but it's got lot's of guts.You keep asking for a transformer that is simple,and powerful that's the one!Also it's copper!

[Planet X]

Originally posted by Scott V
PlanetX,you guys really need to try a yellow one in the spray transfer battle.Of course all your setting on the migmaster 250 will be in the half thottle settings.with .035 wire and about any spray gas you use.In fact since I have owned one with 90/10 gas with .035 wire your setting is about 6 on the WFS,and course tap in the middle,with the fine tap at 6.Thats about 60% power output.Where is your guys output knob at with 90/10?probably almost at the max setting?To me it has as much as my 300 powermig when spraying.Let's just say it's got all sorts of reserve power,and I really don't know how they rate that thing but it's got lot's of guts.You keep asking for a transformer that is simple,and powerful that's the one!Also it's copper!

Disclaimer formal weld training just two semesters at local community college stick semester one tig second semester. I ended my formal training third semester and bought my tecverter tig/stick machine. Power Mig 255 came about a year later. Any and all 'knowledge' I spew comes from Ed Craigs training materials.

90/10 is a medium energy gas mix that would only need with an .035 electrode about 175-180 amps to get into spray transfer.
I use 90/17 (there abouts 'steel'mix) these mixes require more amps to make a stable arc minimum of 190-210 amps. But the cool thing about these mixes and the amount of weld energy they produce help to insure my stuff does not fall apart when I short circuit.
The 90/10 med energy mixes when used on steel thicker than .080 poor welds may result esp. in the short circuit mode of mig.
I maxed out my machine in the 'powermig spray limits' post, probably got about 280 amps out've my little red beast-ie pretty close to its 300 amp rating.
That yellow unit does have 250@50% vs. 250@40% but when I was looking to buy a machine there was a $500 buck difference and I A.S.S.umed Lincoln used copper if I had known the alloy difference I may have gone Yellow, and delayed the purchase of some other 'vital' metal fabbing tool.
Anyone happen to know if the Shopmaster 300 uses copper?
Oh and the Yellow machine does have at least one Euro oddity-non-standard WFS whats up with that?
All I want is pretty simple a machine that will comfortably put out 32 volts , 70-700 wfs, a proven induction/steep slope /flat slope. Maybe throw in a permanent magnetic feeder motor/post/pre flow/burn back controls. Single phase oh and lots of shiny copper wire.
Heck an Ed Craig signature model

[deere_x475guy]

Originally posted by Planet X
With the mix you are using you may want to try an intial setting of something like 350wfs/25v.
Something else would be to set your machine to wfs 350 and without touching ground, trigger your gun for 10 seconds and measure how much wire you get-should be around 60 inches long. 60x6 =360.
The other check would be the OCV/weld voltage stuff and others like Dan have documented that procedure here in previous posts which I'm sure you allready know.
Each machine has its own actual values-who knows maybe yours will match up to your digital meters +- 10%.
Knowledge about the above two things will jump start your mastery of your machine and the "two primary welding controls".

I really wish you had decided to get a higher energy gas mix like Airgas 'steelmix' then we could have had a blue vs. red 'cage match'

Splatter with spray may mean volts to low. However you set the volts too high you'll get a quite 'whoosh' sound with a long arc length and really runny puddle.
Gets some good gloves & #11 shield and have fun exploring your new mig process options.

PlanetX, I will try the wire run test this evening. What do you mean by a "higher energy mix"? I thought that 98/2 was pretty much the highest you could get I already have some gloves and a hand shield. Will just forgot to put them on .
I will play with it this evening to see how low I can set the volts and still get into the spray mode.

Rocky, thanks for the tip about clothes changing color. I guess I never gave that a thought.


Scott, No Esab dealers in the area. And even if there were I don't think they stand a chance with me because I want to stay with a company that I KNOW will help me if the time comes that I need it. I looked at all the ESAB stuff at the welding show and they all seemed to do the job they were intended for.

Bob

[Dan]

Originally posted by deere_x475guy


PlanetX, I will try the wire run test this evening. What do you mean by a "higher energy mix"? I thought that 98/2 was pretty much the highest you could get I already have some gloves and a hand shield. Will just forgot to put them on .
I will play with it this evening to see how low I can set the volts and still get into the spray mode.

Rocky, thanks for the tip about clothes changing color. I guess I never gave that a thought.


Scott, No Esab dealers in the area. And even if there were I don't think they stand a chance with me because I want to stay with a company that I KNOW will help me if the time comes that I need it. I looked at all the ESAB stuff at the welding show and they all seemed to do the job they were intended for.

Bob

Bob

Argon/co2 gas mixes are considered a high energy mix because they require higher machine settings then an Argon/oxy mix to produce a stable spray transfer. Now as I ve stated to you in previous posts since the argon/co2 mixes require higher settings they produce a slightly deeper penetrating weld over a lower energy (lower settings) Argon/oxy mix. Now don t get worried because a 98/2 gas will produce very sound welds for you on the 1/4" to 1/2" mildsteel that you are planning to use spray transfer on.

I have some more info that I want to pass on to you but for now I need to leave. I ll return in a few hours to continue.

[deere_x475guy]

Originally posted by Dan


Bob

Argon/co2 gas mixes are considered a high energy mix because they require higher machine settings then an Argon/oxy mix to produce a stable spray transfer. Now as I ve stated to you in previous posts since the argon/co2 mixes require higher settings they produce a slightly deeper penetrating weld over a lower energy (lower settings) Argon/oxy mix. Now don t get worried because a 98/2 gas will produce very sound welds for you on the 1/4" to 1/2" mildsteel that you are planning to use spray transfer on.

I have some more info that I want to pass on to you but for now I need to leave. I ll return in a few hours to continue.

Thanks Dan....I really appreciate the help!!!

[deere_x475guy]

Will is going to try to make it Saturday. He may have to move his daugher. I am going to come down regardless. I have from anytime in the morning till about 3:00.

[Planet X]

With gas mixes you have what they call "reactive" gasses among these reactive gasses are: Oxygen, Co2, and Helium for example.
These can be added to Argon to vary the amount of weld energy that gets into the part being welded (weldement).
So a mix of Argon 2% oxygen requires a certain amount of energy out've your Millermatic 251 to produce a stable arc. In this case w/.035 wire around 180 amps (for spray).
And argon 15%co2 mix needs from the machine around 220 amps minimum for spray.

180 amps = "low energy"
220 amps =" "high energy"

With the mix 98/2 you should experiment with your .035 electrode you should be able to maintain a stable short circuit arc w/ as little as 11-13 volts! Good for welding thin parts.

Some trivia for you Oxygen is about 10 times more oxidizing (think porosity) than co2
Argon/15-20% co2 is for me an ideal mix- I weld steel .120 thick or greater and I short circuit or spray just by turning up two knobs and ajusting my eso

[deere_x475guy]

Originally posted by Planet X
With gas mixes you have what they call "reactive" gasses among these reactive gasses are: Oxygen, Co2, and Helium for example.
These can be added to Argon to vary the amount of weld energy that gets into the part being welded (weldement).
So a mix of Argon 2% oxygen requires a certain amount of energy out've your Millermatic 251 to produce a stable arc. In this case w/.035 wire around 180 amps (for spray).
And argon 15%co2 mix needs from the machine around 220 amps minimum for spray.

180 amps = "low energy"
220 amps =" "high energy"

With the mix 98/2 you should experiment with your .035 electrode you should be able to maintain a stable short circuit arc w/ as little as 11-13 volts! Good for welding thin parts.

Some trivia for you Oxygen is about 10 times more oxidizing (think porosity) than co2
Argon/15-20% co2 is for me an ideal mix- I weld steel .120 thick or greater and I short circuit or spray just by turning up two knobs and ajusting my eso

OK...wait...thanks PlanetX...I just read your post....It looks like you are saying that I can also do short arc with my 98/2 mix and not have to fuss with changing the bottles? Is that correct? This is really good news if thats the case.