Could you all help me with some clarification-push or pull weld??

[ZACHV]

Here is a link to another site where there is a discussion regarding pushing and pulling weld puddles. I would like to see if what I put is true.
All relevant answers are appreciated.
Thanks.

ASCesana



Registered: Sep 2002
Location: Danville, California
push or pull?
I usually use argon when Im welding thinner gauge stock, mostly because its cleaner. When using gas I push the puddle, when using innershield I pull. Is this correct or can you push with innersheild as well with good results.? Somehow this is the technique I picked up. Ive never had any training just got welder (read alot) and started welding...so Im not sure whats best and why...

Im using .035 innershield alot lately on 1/8 to 1/4 and trying to perfect my technique.

Any tips...

Thanks,Adrian

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04-03-2003 01:20 PM report post | 1 of 5 in thread



JUMP383fi



Registered: Jun 2001
Location: Bear Creek, TX, America
For short arc process I use C25 shield. On thinner material I push, on thicker (1/4" & greater) I drag. For spray transfer process I drag. These are the generally accepted techniques to obtain proper penetration without burn through.
I would recommend reversing your drag/push practice since fluxcore process runs hotter than gas shield, not so much when using straight CO2, but certainly with a mix. On a smallish machine you should probably always drag however because burn through is not likely anyway.

Hugs,
Mike





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04-03-2003 01:50 PM report post | 2 of 5 in thread



zachvNJ



Registered: Nov 2001
Location: Southampton, NJ USA
From EVERY thing I have ever heard, seen, and experienced, you push the weld with shielding gas and pull the weld with flux. To my understanding, the shielding gas should be ahead of the weld puddle to decontaminate the weld puddle, whereas with flux you want the flux to form on the puddle to decontaminate the filler.

Maybe post this question here to see what some experts have to say.





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04-03-2003 03:51 PM report post | 3 of 5 in thread



Allen



Registered: Aug 1999
Location: Joliet, IL
I always pull.

Allen





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04-03-2003 04:15 PM report post | 4 of 5 in thread



waxer



Registered: May 2002
Location: Long Beach, CA.
Pulling or pushing isn't directly related to the GMAW or FCAW welding processes that you are using. It is dependent apon what you are welding on. Thick material or thin material. The following is an excerpt from the United States Navy Steel Workers Manual.

<snip>
When the torch is ahead of the weld, it is known as pulling (or dragging) the weld. When the torch is behind the weld, it is referred to as pushing the metal (fig. 8-31).

The pulling or drag technique is for heavy-gauge metals. Usually the drag technique produces greater penetration than the pushing technique. Also, since the welder can see the weld crater more easily, better quality welds can consistently be made. The pushing technique is normally used for light-gauge metals. Welds made with this technique are less penetrating and wider be_cause the welding speed is faster.

[Guest]

I think what you are asking 'Is it ok to push Innershield?' I do, but I have better results by dragging or pulling. The flux doesn't cover the weld in the push mode, is what I see, and it does cover when you pull it. That said, I have never had a failure in a weld that I pushed.

Now, are you thoroughly confused? I am.

[Sberry]

Rocky D. You run 7018 downhill too?

[Guest]

Originally posted by Sberry27
Rocky D. You run 7018 downhill too?

Yup!

[ZACHV]

So would you say push with shielding gas, GMAW, and pull with flux core, FCAW??

What would you say about this statement:

From EVERY thing I have ever heard, seen, and experienced, you push the weld with shielding gas and pull the weld with flux. To my understanding, the shielding gas should be ahead of the weld puddle to decontaminate the weld puddle, whereas with flux you want the flux to form on the puddle to decontaminate the filler.

[Guest]

Originally posted by ZACHV
So would you say push with shielding gas, GMAW, and pull with flux core, FCAW??

What would you say about this statement:

Works for me...no matter how you do it, it is the results that governs the procedure.

[Stu Bass]

push or drag

Heard a cute one. When you swoosh you push when there's slag you drag. Although agree with Rock you can do either with both it's the results. Also run 7018 downhill to. Stu

[Sberry]

Ya, I dont think they teach much of that lo-hi downhiller in welding school though but its useful every once in a while.

[Mike Sherman]

I'm pretty sure you all don't want to hear what I think about using an electrode designated for everything but downhill being used for downhill. Anytime you get the slag out ahead of you on fluxcore or low-hy electrodes you must take extra care. Some electrodes are obviously made for downhill, they have a different slag system. It is not impossible to weld improperly with these electrodes and achieve satisfactory welds, it is just difficult and the results are inconsistant at best. Just because you can do it doesn't make it right.

[Stu Bass]

downhill weld

Mike: Finished a job at Det. Edison for Washington Group last year. Our welding test was OH & vert down with fluxcore 3/8 plate exray. Also have taken 7018 down for welding persipitators for consumers power and Det. Edison. Years ago working for C.B.I you took a downhand test for cover passes on tanks. 3/8 plate guided bend. We still use downhand 7018 for covering tube repairs. Also test coupons at our school ocasionally. We teach apprentces how to run 7018 down properly. Stu

[Mike Sherman]

Stu, when I took my CWI seminar there was a fellow there from a company that had procedures for welding E7018 downhill. I know it is done, I simply find there are many times a better way to go. I feel the same way about open root welding with E7018, it can and is done, but there are usually many better ways to do it. I don't teach either process to my employees for that reason. I get consistantly better weld results when we stick to traditonal use of the electrodes. By the way my Brother in law used to be a senior welding engineer for the Washington group. He is now the welding engineer for Bechtel. Thanks for letting me know there are many companies out there still using this electrode in this way.