Question for Rock (straight CO2)

[deere_x475guy]

Rock, if I used straight CO2 with my MM175 do you think I will be able to get into the spray transfer mode? If so what wire would I use and will I be able to handle 3/8 with this?

Thanks
Bob

[Dan]

Re: Question for Rock (straight CO2)

Originally posted by deere_x475guy
Rock, if I used straight CO2 with my MM175 do you think I will be able to get into the spray transfer mode? If so what wire would I use and will I be able to handle 3/8 with this?

Thanks
Bob

Bob
CO2 will not create a spray transfer no matter what size the machine is. To spray you need a gas that contains a minimum of 80% argon,but preferably 90% +. Then too you need a machine that will output a high enough voltage and amperage. A MM 175 isn t designed to do this with a wire size that can realistically be used for 3/8". With CO2 the best you ll get from a MM 175 is a low end globular transfer. Bob also be aware that by using CO2 the mechanical properties of your weld metal suffer some because of the high oxiding characteristics of the gas, de oxidizing elements that are added to the wire, that also help improve the mechanical properties, are consumed to remove this oxygen from the weld puddle.

For 3/8" material with you MM 175 your best bet is a self shielded fluxcore wire and multiple passes.

Hey Bob are you sure you dont want to get that MM 210 or M 251 right now instead of the plasma.

[deere_x475guy]

Re: Re: Question for Rock (straight CO2)

Originally posted by Dan


Bob
CO2 will not create a spray transfer no matter what size the machine is. To spray you need a gas that contains a minimum of 80% argon,but preferably 90% +. Then too you need a machine that will output a high enough voltage and amperage. A MM 175 isn t designed to do this with a wire size that can realistically be used for 3/8". With CO2 the best you ll get from a MM 175 is a low end globular transfer. Bob also be aware that by using CO2 the mechanical properties of your weld metal suffer some because of the high oxiding characteristics of the gas, de oxidizing elements that are added to the wire, that also help improve the mechanical properties, are consumed to remove this oxygen from the weld puddle.

For 3/8" material with you MM 175 your best bet is a self shielded fluxcore wire and multiple passes.

Hey Bob are you sure you dont want to get that MM 210 or M 251 right now instead of the plasma.

UGH...thanks Dan I guess I had my gasses confused. Actually I am pretty lucky this year. I am for sure getting the Miller 625 plasma cutter. And will probably order the MM210. Who knows maybe I can buy one at the show next week in Detroit.

Dan, you have gotten the 210 to do spray transfer I believe. Can you tell me what wire and gas you used to do this and how thick of material can I expect to use spray transfer on?

Thanks.
Bob

[Jerry]

To achieve a true spray weld you need stargon (Ar, C02, Oxy) although I have used 75/25 in past, I only use stargon now for all my mig welding. Yet Praxair tells me stargon only for true spray welding.

I have done this with mild steel wire #ER70S-6, same wire I would use for short arc.

I looked into this so to cut down spatter on customers parts. Anti-spatter was'nt doing it but spray welding did, although its a lot hotter only a couple of bb's here and there and I am welding on 11g and she looks great.

Welding unit is a Pow-Con 300 inverter welder with a spray mode for switching unit over onto.

Good luck

[Dan]

Re: Re: Re: Question for Rock (straight CO2)

Originally posted by deere_x475guy


UGH...thanks Dan I guess I had my gasses confused. Actually I am pretty lucky this year. I am for sure getting the Miller 625 plasma cutter. And will probably order the MM210. Who knows maybe I can buy one at the show next week in Detroit.

Dan, you have gotten the 210 to do spray transfer I believe. Can you tell me what wire and gas you used to do this and how thick of material can I expect to use spray transfer on?

Thanks.
Bob

Bob, yes my MM 210 will do spray transfer. First let me state though that spray transfer with a MM 210 should be done at a conservative pace, because your running the machine on the high end of its current and voltage output. To give you an idea when I tested the machine, I ran about 12 3" long fillets on 1/4" material when I was using 90/10 in about a 20 minute time frame and the thermal protection on the machine didn t trip. When I switched to the 98/2 gas that I originally wanted to use I ran about 18 3" long welds on 3/16 material (didnt have any 1/4') in about 20 minutes too without any problems from the machine.

Now to answer you question To produce spray transfer with a MM 210 I would recommend using either a 98% argon / 2% Oxy or 95%argon/ 5% oxy for the shielding gas, and .035 E70S-6 or .035 E70S-2 for the wire. For single pass fillet 1/4" is about max,but you could easily multipass 1/2". Just remember though the MM 210 isn t a production machine for spray transfer.However, it should do fine for the average hobbiest weldor. Besides in multipasses the metal needs to cool some between passes.

Bob in the end though if your wanting to do a lot of spray transfer in a very short period of time the MM 251 is the machine for such a task. A MM 251 will spray arc a single pass fillet on about 3/8" with an .035 wire.

[cope]

Guys, spray transfer is possible with Argon/CO2. Check this link:

http://www.weldreality.com/spray_transfer_above100.htm Look around on his site. his MIG gas section will give you more data.

[cope]

Originally posted by Jerry
To achieve a true spray weld you need stargon (Ar, C02, Oxy) although I have used 75/25 in past, I only use stargon now for all my mig welding. Yet Praxair tells me stargon only for true spray welding.

I have done this with mild steel wire #ER70S-6, same wire I would use for short arc.

I looked into this so to cut down spatter on customers parts. Anti-spatter was'nt doing it but spray welding did, although its a lot hotter only a couple of bb's here and there and I am welding on 11g and she looks great.

Welding unit is a Pow-Con 300 inverter welder with a spray mode for switching unit over onto.

Good luck

Jerry, which feeder is on your PowCon? I have their 200SM/PD1

[deere_x475guy]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Rock (straight CO2)

Originally posted by Dan


Bob, yes my MM 210 will do spray transfer. First let me state though that spray transfer with a MM 210 should be done at a conservative pace, because your running the machine on the high end of its current and voltage output. To give you an idea when I tested the machine, I ran about 12 3" long fillets on 1/4" material when I was using 90/10 in about a 20 minute time frame and the thermal protection on the machine didn t trip. When I switched to the 98/2 gas that I originally wanted to use I ran about 18 3" long welds on 3/16 material (didnt have any 1/4') in about 20 minutes too without any problems from the machine.

Now to answer you question To produce spray transfer with a MM 210 I would recommend using either a 98% argon / 2% Oxy or 95%argon/ 5% oxy for the shielding gas, and .035 E70S-6 or .035 E70S-2 for the wire. For single pass fillet 1/4" is about max,but you could easily multipass 1/2". Just remember though the MM 210 isn t a production machine for spray transfer.However, it should do fine for the average hobbiest weldor. Besides in multipasses the metal needs to cool some between passes.

Bob in the end though if your wanting to do a lot of spray transfer in a very short period of time the MM 251 is the machine for such a task. A MM 251 will spray arc a single pass fillet on about 3/8" with an .035 wire.

Dan, thanks I was kinda waiting to make up my mind to even upgrade untill I heard from you. I won't be doing much over 1/4" stuff and mostly will still be under 1/4". What do you do when you are welding thinner stuff. Do you switch tanks and use short circuit? From what I am getting from you you cannot spray transfer of the smaller stuff because of the high heat caused by spray transfer. I am correct in thinking this?

Thanks
Bob

[deere_x475guy]

Originally posted by cope
Guys, spray transfer is possible with Argon/CO2. Check this link:

http://www.weldreality.com/spray_transfer_above100.htm Look around on his site. his MIG gas section will give you more data.

Cope thanks for the link. I printed off the info and will read it this evening right after Monster Garage..

Bob

[Jerry]

Hey Cope, I think it is a linde wire feed unit that I have on it.

(Spray Welding) I have spray welded with 75 /25, but was told from Praxair reps that to achieve a true spray weld I should use Stargon which is a blend of Ar/CO2/OXY. Now did I notice the difference I am not really sure on that. I switched on his advice and it looks and seems as good as before.

[Jerry]

Cope , thanks for the link I'll check it out.

[Jerry]

Cope , just checked out that link I think I should send it to my welding rep at Praxair.

Thanks I'll have to think about this.

[Scott V]

Spray,

Bob,you will never get a 210 Miller to spray with 75/25 gas.So your picks are two tanks,or a mix like 90/10 or a tri-mix.One of the best all around gases was a mix that is hard to find from Airgas,but one other local gas supplier has it,and it's another tri-mix.It's different than stargon in % of gases.They had two of them,one was 95% argon,3% co2/2%.That gas would spray way low in the voltage range.The one thing about those type gases is you cannot stay in short-arc as long as 75/25 without going into globular type arc.Everything is a trade off somewhere.All those gases cost me the same so I just change them every once in awhile to see what I like.Some machines like different gases better than others,but with mine you can change the arc to suit the gases somewhat.I kind of think with a 210 Miller .035 flux-core with 75/25 gas makes the most sense.Thats great stuff,and won't overwork your machine as much.Plus it's has way more uses with nice looking weld beads.On some of them you peel back the light covered flux for some of the nicest looking weld beads you will ever see.

[cope]

Originally posted by Jerry
Cope , just checked out that link I think I should send it to my welding rep at Praxair.

Thanks I'll have to think about this.

Jerry, Ed says you can't get true spray with .035 wire, but my PowCon seems to do it. My favorite supplier doesn't carry C-10 or C-15, closest is C-20 which isn't worth fooling with. I may have to go to my second choice. C-10 or 15 will work for short arc or spray.

Scott V: check out the link I posted to weldreality.com . I don't hink you really need tri-gas blends.

[Guest]

I agree with cope, tri gas blends are good for stainless, but for spray....that monster job i did a few months ago was done with 98 /2, Ar/CO2. I have a mixer, so I experimented with 80/ 20 till I finally found a satisfactiry mix at 98/2. I was able to make a bead 1 1/2" wide, at 325 amps 38 volts.

I'll be doing another job like that one, soon, and I'll post some pictures.