Question for ROCK

[Dan]

Rock

I was just wondering if you could have one of your secret agents try spray transfer out with an .035 wire on a MM 210. Reason being because I don t want to be advertising to everyone that a MM 210 will do spray transfer and then find out my machine is a fluke or that since my input voltage is actually around 240 volt this is the reason why I am able to get my machine to spray.

Anyway if I remember right my setting for 3/16" were tap #6 and 57 on the wire speed, and for 1/4" tap #7 and 62 on the wire speed. If someone tries this, is there anyway they could get a load voltage and amperage reading for the settings? By the way the shielding gas mixture that I used was 98% argon / 2 % Oxy

[Hobart Expert Rock]

DAN.......I SENT YOU AN E-MAIL THE OTHER DAY DID YOU GET IT..........?............... OK I WILL FORWARD YOUR REQUEST TO 3 OF OUR SECRET AGENTS..........MARIE..........GALEN..........OR GARY.... THEN WE WILL SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY................ROCK....
WHO SAID THEY WERE MY SECRET AGENTS......................THEY WORK FOR THE CUSTOMERS..... NOT ME ........................ISN'T IT NICE TO HAVE THIS RESOURCE................ROCK
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[Sberry]

If I understand this right the spray is only good for flats. Is that correct? So you would need to change back to short arc for out of position?

[Dan]

Originally posted by Sberry27
If I understand this right the spray is only good for flats. Is that correct? So you would need to change back to short arc for out of position?

Sberry27

Spray transfer positions are flat for butt joints , and flat and horizontal for fillet welds. By the way incase some one doesn t know, fillet welds are T joints , lap joint, and outside corner joints.

Actually, when welding out-of-position if you want weld penetration similar to what spray transfer will achieve I suggest using an all position gas shielded fluxcore wire. Shielding gas for the wire will be either C25 or CO2 the manufacture spec sheet for the wire will state which gas can be used with there wire. However, if your out doors alot I would just use a self shielded fluxcore. weld penetration for this wire is similar to what 7018 achieves.

[Dan]

Originally posted by Hobart Expert Rock
DAN.......I SENT YOU AN E-MAIL THE OTHER DAY DID YOU GET IT..........?............... OK I WILL FORWARD YOUR REQUEST TO 3 OF OUR SECRET AGENTS..........MARIE..........GALEN..........OR GARY.... THEN WE WILL SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY................ROCK....
WHO SAID THEY WERE MY SECRET AGENTS......................THEY WORK FOR THE CUSTOMERS..... NOT ME ........................ISN'T IT NICE TO HAVE THIS RESOURCE................ROCK
[email protected]

Rock

I didn t receive an Email from you. My wife wouldn t delete any mail that had Millerwelds.com on it because she was use to me recieving several from Mr Enneking. You can t leave me hanging know. What was this E mail about? If it needs to be personal please send it again.

[Sberry]

I think penertation is an overused word and most of it is determined by joint design. Fusion with base metal would be a better term I think. I can see the spray arc having great practical application for automated or production apps but for the rest of the world it would be a huge waste of effort. In my world more than half is out of position so that would be difficult and wouldnt be worth it to change every few mins just to impress myself. And again, if I was going to build a tank battery where there was thousands of feet of continious weld I would use innershield, which I do like by the way and have also ran several miles of,, again lots of verts and overhead. We still use stick on portables. What my point is I guess is that most of this finnesse stuff doesnt apply to a guy wanting a wirefeeder in his garage. Practical counts for a lot. 1 gas bottle of mix. You are fortunate to be working where you can diddle and get the perfect process for every app, but in most other places that wouldnt fly. If I am hiring a guy I want a strong stickwelding background first, if we gotta teach him something else we can but it takes a while to learn a guy to get on his back and do a good job where you have trouble seeing the joint. I see many coming out of welding schools with some knowledge of tech stuff but if I would send them out to fix a garbage compactor with a busted weld they would be in trouble. For me looking to buy a feeder for a garage it just wouldnt be a concern if it would spray arc, and if it would it would get old in a hurry changing the setup. What I would want to know was if it would run .035 well because thats what would happen 99.5% of the time. Thats why I like the new 210 machines, both red and blue. They are economical and should give affordable big machine operation to the average small user instead of spendin 6-7 or 8 hundred on something so limited. One of those and a stickmate and a guy would be set cept for aluminum which as a small user or hobby guy is limited. Its still a steel world. Before I had tig I used to do all the fitup and run it to the tig guy. Its rare for avg person. I have 20 miles of alum irrigation pipe so I have my own machine.

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HEY DAN...............MR. ENNEKING........AH WE JUST CALL HIM DAVE. EVEN THOUGH HE WAS AT ONE TIME A SCHOOL TEACHER..... .. ANYWAY I FORWARDED YOUR E-MAIL TO MARIE, I'M SURE SHE WILL RESPOND AND I COPIED YOU ON IT WITH THE ENCLOSED REQUEST............... I'M NOT SUSPRISED YOU DIDN'T GET IT SINCE LAST THRUSDAY WE'VE HAD WATER IN OUR FIBER OPTIC CABLES AND HAVE BEEN UP AND DOWN ........ AH YOU CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT A NIGHTMARE IT'S BEEN........... .. OH WELL STEVE AND I HAVE ONLY CRASHED 2 TIMES TODAY....... SO WERE NOT AS FRUSTRATED AS WE WERE............... MY APOLOGIES TO EVERYONE ON THE BOARD FOR THE DELAYS.......... IN ANSWERING, THINKING I ANSWERED, AND HAVEING NOTHING UP ON THE BOARD.............. IF YOU NEED A SPECIFIC QUESTION ANSWERED THAT I DID NOT ANSWER PLEASE REPOST IT......... AFTER ALMOST A WEEK I'M NOT EVEN SURE WHAT IS ON HERE..............HANG IN THERE IT WILL GET BETTER........ ... I KNOW IT WILL...........................ROCK............... ............[email protected]

[Jerry]

Hello Sberry27, ( Spray Arc )
I have a pow con 300 power supply. To change over to spray mode is merely flipping a switch and adjusting wire feed and voltage. I use stargon gas which is argon,CO2,and Oxy. This gas also works good in short arc mode as well, therfor only need one bottle for short and spray, my welding rep says you need stargon to achieve a true spray arc, for I have tried 75, 25 also.

Spray arc will greatly reduce the amount of spatter such as in short arc, and give you some big time penetration power for those heavy welding projects.

But like you say stick welding can be done everywhere and as I remember when I went to school 25 years back (I first learned how to Arc weld.)

[Sberry]

Yes, I can see in a larger shop the spray would have more application. I might even try it one of these days. I flip positions constantly and am not so fussy about finnish. Is just hard for me to imagine being in one position. I can go to 3 positions without ever letting off the trigger,, ha Maybe 3 thickness also.

[Scott V]

Here is another thought,90/10 gas,pulse spray will do somethings like out of position spray if you have the equiptment to do it.Also for straight spray you don't have to change much just your machine settings,like more gas,wirespeed,voltage,and slide your nozzle down a little,and you are good to go.It takes 30 seconds max.So if you don't think spray has any advantages you are missing out.If you like speed,and fusion it cannot be beat.One other thing get some good reflective type gloves because its a real hot weld.

[Galen]

Spray transfer w/ MM 210

Dan,

Rock asked me to reply to your email a while ago so I apologize that it has taken me this long to post it.

Your MM 210 is not a fluke. That machine does have enough volts/amps to get you into a true spray transfer with the right wire and gas. With 0.030" diameter wire it is easier to achieve a spray and I've also done it with 90/10 (Ar/Co2). Remember, that machine isn't designed to run at those amperages indifinitely so keep in mind your duty cycle as well as the duty cycle of the gun. Mig guns are typically rated at 100% for a given amperage when using Co2. Co2 actually cools the gun down more than a mixed gas.

From what I remember w/ 0.030" wire and 90/10 I was running on tap 7 to get it into a good spray (on 230 VAC). The fact that you are running on 240 VAC will give you a little extra power and may be why you are able to run 0.035" wire. I always like to make recommendations based on evaluations run on a nominal line voltage. Hope this helps.

Galen

[Hobart Expert Rock]

HI DAN................THANKS GALEN..............DAN, GALEN HAS SECRET AGENT STATUS...........HE IS A WELD ENGINEER INVOLVED WITH R & D.............HE AND I WORKED TOGETHER FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS IN APPLETON////////////////......................OH AND HE IS A FERRIS STATE GRADUATE AS I RECALL AND REAL GOOD AT PLAYING FRISBEE GOLF...................... .....................ROCK........
[email protected],COM

[Dan]

Re: Spray transfer w/ MM 210

Originally posted by Galen
Dan,

Rock asked me to reply to your email a while ago so I apologize that it has taken me this long to post it.

Your MM 210 is not a fluke. That machine does have enough volts/amps to get you into a true spray transfer with the right wire and gas. With 0.030" diameter wire it is easier to achieve a spray and I've also done it with 90/10 (Ar/Co2). Remember, that machine isn't designed to run at those amperages indifinitely so keep in mind your duty cycle as well as the duty cycle of the gun. Mig guns are typically rated at 100% for a given amperage when using Co2. Co2 actually cools the gun down more than a mixed gas.

From what I remember w/ 0.030" wire and 90/10 I was running on tap 7 to get it into a good spray (on 230 VAC). The fact that you are running on 240 VAC will give you a little extra power and may be why you are able to run 0.035" wire. I always like to make recommendations based on evaluations run on a nominal line voltage. Hope this helps.

Galen

Galen

I think the main factor in why I m able to achieve a true spray transfer with a.035 wire is because I m using 98/2 for my shielding gas. With the 98/2 I m actually able to get the machine to transition over into a spray transfer with an .035 wire on tap #5 and about 55 on the wire speed. The arc fans out better though if I step it up to tap #6 and about 57 on the wire speed. I use this setting for 3/16. For 1/4" I use tap #7 and around 62 on the wire speed.

When I tried 90/10 tap #7 was the only one that would transition the arc over into a spray transfer with .035, however the fan of the arc was narrrow. I agree with you, .030 wire is the way to go with 90/10. The arc fans out much better.

Also, I am well aware of the machines limitation and take a very conservative aproach when Im using the machine for spray.