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Can't seem to get my "T"/fillet weld correct.

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  • Can't seem to get my "T"/fillet weld correct.

    It is only my second day using the TIG welder and I have progressed on from normal beads and lock welds onto to fillet or "T" welds. I spent over an hour and a half today just doing T welds over and over again but I cant seem to get it down very well. When I try and tack the ends, it just ends up burning a hole in the metal. I cant seem to keep the puddle a consistant circle all the way across and I either end up burning a hole or my puddle ends up becoming a deformed small puddle where I can't really add any wire. I try altering the angles of my torch but I still cant seem to get it.

    Could it be that my Tungsten is sticking out to far? I am welding steel @ 60 amps. Does anybody have any suggestions or tips to improve my weld? There is something that I am not doing right but I can't figure out what it is.

    Thanks,
    -Mike

    See a couple of my weld below....

  • #2
    Try starting puddle on filler rod.
    Often puddle will form on one side or both sides of joint and don't want to join or form on both side. Try agitating puddle with quick small motions of torch side to side to get puddle across joint without drop out.

    Little things like this not in manuals makes learning without instructor harder.

    Comment


    • #3
      Could be a number of factors

      Mike, you didn't say what size tungsten electrode you're using and how far out beyond the cup you extend the tip. However, I don't think that this is why you're burning holes in your practice metal (steel?) when doing fillet welds. The main thing you're doing wrong is trying to learn fillet welding with sheet metal or 1/16" thick steel. When you are starting out in tig welding, you are learning how to control three limbs simultaneously: your hand and arm holding the torch, your other hand and arm feeding the filler rod, and your foot depressing the foot control pedal. In the beginning whenever you concentrate on how you're holding your torch, you may forget what your foot is doing and, either, let up on the pedal or depress it more. Controlling and coordinating the movements of all three extremities will give you control over the arc's intensity and the state of the molten puddle. This will take time and lots of practice, however. In the meantime you should give yourself an advantage and start out welding on thicker metal, like 1/8" or 1/4" thick scrap. Then as you learn how to control the arc's intensity and the molten state of the puddle, begin welding thinner metal.

      Good luck in your efforts. With much practice, you can learn how to create good welds with a tig welder. Don't be discouraged by your burnt holes. Just about all of us who've tig welded for years still burn holes in sheet metal that we're welding. We've just learned how to patch up the holes neatly.

      LarryL

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by LarryL View Post
        Mike, you didn't say what size tungsten electrode you're using and how far out beyond the cup you extend the tip. However, I don't think that this is why you're burning holes in your practice metal (steel?) when doing fillet welds. The main thing you're doing wrong is trying to learn fillet welding with sheet metal or 1/16" thick steel. When you are starting out in tig welding, you are learning how to control three limbs simultaneously: your hand and arm holding the torch, your other hand and arm feeding the filler rod, and your foot depressing the foot control pedal. In the beginning whenever you concentrate on how you're holding your torch, you may forget what your foot is doing and, either, let up on the pedal or depress it more. Controlling and coordinating the movements of all three extremities will give you control over the arc's intensity and the state of the molten puddle. This will take time and lots of practice, however. In the meantime you should give yourself an advantage and start out welding on thicker metal, like 1/8" or 1/4" thick scrap. Then as you learn how to control the arc's intensity and the molten state of the puddle, begin welding thinner metal.

        Good luck in your efforts. With much practice, you can learn how to create good welds with a tig welder. Don't be discouraged by your burnt holes. Just about all of us who've tig welded for years still burn holes in sheet metal that we're welding. We've just learned how to patch up the holes neatly.

        LarryL
        Well to be honest, I don't really have a choice as far as the thickness of metal I use. The instructors of the program make everyone use the same metal when starting out in TIG which is the sheet metal you are speaking of. I am not sure about the size of the Tungsten electrode but I know I chnged the extensions from about 1/4"-1/2" beyond the cup. I think I might try Roger's idea and move the torch around in small motions as I go across, maybe it will help the puddle keep form.

        Thanks for the advice LarryL & Roger

        Comment


        • #5
          In pic 1, 2 & 4; your beads are getting wider as you travel to the left. This happens because the puddle heat is running out in front of your weld. This is natural. It's also the reason TIG is so cool, there's a pedal. As you travel, lift on the pedal. Also, when you start at the right side; there's plenty of metal for the heat to 'run' to. But as you approach the left side of the coupon, there's no where for the heat to go; hence your blow-outs on the left. Again, less pedal. And since your holes are on the vertical sheet, point your torch downward a little (more vertical).

          Pic 3 looks pretty good. I'm in TIG 101 class, even though I've been hobby TIG welding for years. I take the left edge of all coupons as a challenge.
          9-11-2001......We Will Never Forget

          Retired desk jockey.

          Hobby weldor with a little training.

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          • #6
            Use 1/16" Thoriated
            tungsten and depending on the material something like .030 filler....Gas lens
            if possible and hold a tight arc I wouldn't think anything higher than 80 amps
            Even with undercut if everything is right you won't burn holes.....

            Last edited by B_C; 10-20-2008, 12:16 PM.
            Some people require more attention than others.....Like a LOST DOG and strangers holding out biscuits....

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            • #7
              Originally posted by xmjm924x View Post
              Well to be honest, I don't really have a choice as far as the thickness of metal I use. The instructors of the program make everyone use the same metal when starting out in TIG which is the sheet metal you are speaking of. I am not sure about the size of the Tungsten electrode but I know I chnged the extensions from about 1/4"-1/2" beyond the cup. I think I might try Roger's idea and move the torch around in small motions as I go across, maybe it will help the puddle keep form.

              Thanks for the advice LarryL & Roger


              What did the Instructor say? Yer paying for the Class- Make him instruct!!

              It would be a good idea to learn what size tungsten to use also.

              This is a good handbook to download

              http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/TIGhandbook/
              Ed Conley
              Screaming Broccoli, Inc
              http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
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              • #8
                Thanks for the replies guys. I think I improved quite a bit from yesterday on my fillet welds. I was able to get the welds down to about half the size of my welds from yesterday and they also came out alot cleaner and neater. My instructor said that my welds look excellent but that I should try and get them down a little bit smaller.

                One thing that concerns me is that my instructor never really emphasized anything about porosity, penetration, or tiny holes in the welds. I brought a couple of my welds home to my dad and he said that they looked good except that for that on most of them the back (other side) of the metal that I welded seems to be caved in. He said that, that its not something I want to have on my welds because it makes them weak. He also stated that porosity and such things will NEVER be allowed even once on the certification test, especially the pipe welds.

                Anyways, take a look at a couple of my welds and see what I am talking about. Does anybody have any clues on what I should do to correct the back (other side) of the weld from becoming caved in? I am just not quite sure on what an absolutley correct TIGed fillet weld should consist of yet. Any other general advice would also be appreciated.

                (Weld 1 is allegedly the bad one according to my dad..notice the constant caving in all along the backside. Weld 2 is allegedly the good one according to my dad..notice the normal backside)

                Once again for the ones who have replied, I thank you all so much as your wisdom has helped me some in my welding journey.

                BTW, another thing I fear is going through the whole 4-6 month welding program and then forgetting how to do alot of the welding processes. For example, a couple weeks ago I learned all the oxy acetylene welding processes. Then I learned brazing. Then I finally moved on to TIG. Today I went back to try and show my brother how to correctly do brazing and I completely forgot how to do it correctly after only about a week! I strongly fear that this will happen for all the welding proccesses. Could someone give me some encouragement?? lol, or else it will be bothering me for the next 4-6 months.

                Okay, thats all.......for now.

                NOTE: Neither of these welds are my "neatest, cleanest, most uniform" ones.

                Comment


                • #9
                  First I see you're going too slow, not adding enough rod, and letting your puddle get too big. This is normal for a novice...you are also trying to hard,...relax loosen up, dude! The torch should become a feather in your hand, grasshopper. It will come. In the certs I take, the backside should not show any disruption...and you have to have 95% penetration. That's your goal....you'll find that after a while, you won't even think about it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Are there any other ways to get the puddle smaller? The way I am now is if you wanted 1/8" hardface done you would get 1/4".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mcostello View Post
                      Are there any other ways to get the puddle smaller? The way I am now is if you wanted 1/8" hardface done you would get 1/4".
                      Easiest ways t shrink the puddle are to move faster and to add more filler. Often this means INCREASE the current a little (counter intuitive, but increasing the current puts the heat in faster, so there is less time for it to run away from the weld area and increase the puddle size, but it does require running faster, adding filler faster, or both). If you are already at the high end of desirable current, then moving a LITTLE faster will do it.

                      If you go too slow, the puddle gets too big and hard to control, as the material near the weld gets hot enough that small speed changes and small position changes let more material melt.
                      I may not be good looking, but I make up for it with my dazzling lack of personality

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                      • #12
                        Hold a tight arc and use small filler rod.....and you will get small beads...Just take into consideration your material thickness and amp settings.....
                        Some people require more attention than others.....Like a LOST DOG and strangers holding out biscuits....

                        Dynasty 350
                        Hobart Beta Mig 200
                        Twenty seven Hammers
                        Three Crow Bars
                        One English Springer Dog



                        A Big Rock

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