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Favorite Filler and Tungsten?

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  • Favorite Filler and Tungsten?

    So after about a year, I got back on a tig machine, ran some aluminum beads and impressed myself with how much I remembered. They have an miller dynasty 200dx, but they are really lacking as far as tungsten and filler goes.

    I was wondering what kind of tungsten everybody prefers?

    Also, what kind of filler is a good general purpose aluminum filler? It needs to be able to hand some cast stuff as well as "regular" aluminum. I was thinking 3/32 tungsten and filler? They are using 100% argon shielding gas.


    Thanks
    Jim
    Speedglas 9100x

  • #2
    3/32" 2% thoriated tungsten melting some 3/32" 4043 wire DCEN on thick aluminum and 1/16" 2% thoriated tungsten with 3/32" 4043 wire with AC for thinner aluminum. The reason that I like the thick wire for thim material is that you can put your heat on the wire if you have to to keep the part from burning back.
    Last edited by Pangea; 10-16-2008, 10:00 PM. Reason: add info
    Two turn tables and a microphone.

    Comment


    • #3
      KartRacer55,

      I'd suggest trying the 2% Lanthanated tungstens on the Dynasty 200. 3/32" is a good general size. That will handle about any power the 200 will put out.

      The 4043 filler is softer than the 5356. 4043 is recommended if the part welded will be subjected to more than about 140 degree heat. 5356 is really the only choice if the part will be anodized. 4043 will turn black if anodized. Personally, I use 5356 in a 2 to 1 ratio over 4043.

      I still don't understand why Pangea recommends DC welding of aluminum in common applications. The cleaning effect of the electrode positive cycle is required for most "real world" applications. If more is needed out of the Dynasty 200, I'd recommend going to an argon/helium mix.

      I never disputed that DCEN has applications when welding heavy sheet (greater than 3/8") or heavy mass (castings) but I just don't see it being that useful on a day to day basis. I understand that Pangea works in the space industry and that things are done a little different there. It seems to me that if DCEN had such broad applications, that Miller Electric (who made your machine) would have given more than a passing reference to it in their Tig Manual. Much time is spent on discussing the cleaning effect of the AC cycle (balance control) and frequency (arc shaping), but virtually no discussion of welding aluminum with DCEN.

      With the Dynasty, an advanced squarewave machine, you can dial in the "best of both worlds". 98% of the aluminum tig I do is in AC mode.
      SundownIII

      Syncrowave 250DX, Tigrunner
      Dynasty 200 DX w/CM 3
      MM 251 w/30 A SG
      HH 187 Mig
      XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Pulser
      Dialarc 250 w/HF 15-1
      Hypertherm PM 1250 Plasma
      Victor, Harris, and Smith O/A
      PC Dry Cut Saw and (just added) Wilton (7x12) BS
      Mil Mod 6370-21 Metal Cut Saw
      More grinders than hands (Makita & Dewalt)
      Grizzly 6"x48" Belt Sander
      Access to full fab shop w/CNC Plasma & Waterjet
      Gas mixers (Smith(2) and Thermco)
      Miller BWE and BWE Dig

      Comment


      • #4
        It really bugs you huh?

        Maybe the reason that it isn't promoted as well as AC is because the learning curve is very steep and they aim their product at a demographic that is less than professional?
        Two turn tables and a microphone.

        Comment


        • #5
          Pangea,

          Or maybe most businesses have a "profit motive" and don't have millions to throw away like NASA. Clean rooms, extraordinary cleaning procedures, lab grade helium, special inspected materials, are not something the general welding population deals with on a regular basis.

          Is this a pedestal you're using to "blow your own horn", noting that DC welding of aluminum requires a "very steep learning curve"? Are you further implying that if a person is using AC to weld aluminum, he is less "professional" than you are? Are you trying to help the OP or simply trying to impress someone?

          KartRacer asked some pretty basic questions regarding tig welding aluminum. He has access to one of the best little tig welders available. The Dynasty has tremendous adjustability to enable it to achieve the "best of both worlds" concerning AC and DC welding of aluminum. Properly set up, he can get the cleaning effect of AC and the heat potential of DC. I don't think he is looking for a "very steep learning curve".

          Bottom line. I guess I'm not really impressed with your "horn blowing".
          SundownIII

          Syncrowave 250DX, Tigrunner
          Dynasty 200 DX w/CM 3
          MM 251 w/30 A SG
          HH 187 Mig
          XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Pulser
          Dialarc 250 w/HF 15-1
          Hypertherm PM 1250 Plasma
          Victor, Harris, and Smith O/A
          PC Dry Cut Saw and (just added) Wilton (7x12) BS
          Mil Mod 6370-21 Metal Cut Saw
          More grinders than hands (Makita & Dewalt)
          Grizzly 6"x48" Belt Sander
          Access to full fab shop w/CNC Plasma & Waterjet
          Gas mixers (Smith(2) and Thermco)
          Miller BWE and BWE Dig

          Comment


          • #6
            You two guys are a HARD ACT to follow.......But since I use both methods to accomplish my aluminum welding needs I will say that for MYSELF I like the results of AC on aluminum.....But DC does have it's advantages...One being penetration...
            I usually go straight DC helium with thicker aluminum parts..(see pics)
            Thinner material welds up nice and is IMO easier to control the heat with AC
            and argon...I have mixed some grade 5 helium in with the argon (alumix) if the material is 1/4 thick (see pics)



            Some people require more attention than others.....Like a LOST DOG and strangers holding out biscuits....

            Dynasty 350
            Hobart Beta Mig 200
            Twenty seven Hammers
            Three Crow Bars
            One English Springer Dog



            A Big Rock

            Comment


            • #7
              That jealousy is going to give you ulcers if you don't learn to control it bro. I'm not bragging or self promoting, at all. The guy asked for peoples favorites and just like every other time that I say something about DCEN, you have to jump on it with both feet. Furiously pounding away at your keyboard in your mothers basement, spittle running down you chin, veins bulging in rage over that guy who dares to do something different than you.

              Get a life and seek professional help with that temper. Your going to have a stroke and then the world will be short another AC welder. Like there isn't a million of them out there already.

              You have a nice day now, you hear?
              Two turn tables and a microphone.

              Comment


              • #8
                ROTFLMAO...
                Some people require more attention than others.....Like a LOST DOG and strangers holding out biscuits....

                Dynasty 350
                Hobart Beta Mig 200
                Twenty seven Hammers
                Three Crow Bars
                One English Springer Dog



                A Big Rock

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pangea View Post
                  That jealousy is going to give you ulcers if you don't learn to control it bro. <random posturing> Furiously pounding away at your keyboard in your mothers basement, <blah blah blah>
                  Wow, I didn't know Sully2 had a new username
                  Trailblazer 302 * Millermatic 212 * Syncrowave 180SD * X-Treme 12VS Feeder * Spoolmate 3035
                  Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 Plasma * Lincoln 175 MIG

                  Victor Superrange II * Victor Journeyman

                  Hobart HH 125EZ


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Wow Pangea,

                    You're quite a guy. Good to hear you hold yourself in such high esteem.

                    First you insult the majority of "professional" tig welders who use AC to accomplish their day to day work by implying that only guys who weld aluminum with DC are professional.

                    Jealous. Not likely. Why would I be jealous of a guy who's job is being replaced by a machine. In another posting you stated that NASA is moving towards the elimination of manual welding in favor of other means.

                    I suspect that if you left NASA and had to compete in the "real world" where costs play a major factor in the business equation, you'd rapidly learn why AC is so widely used in tig welding. Your previous comment about Miller Electric focusing their marketing/products on a "less professional clientele" is flat out ludicrous.

                    With regard to your comment about living in my mother's basement. Not likely. She (bless her soul) passed about 20 years ago. I do live in my own home (paid for), here on the Rappahannock River overlooking the Cheasapeake Bay (County assessment is 1.2 M). Sorry. Quite wrong again.

                    As far as my background. I was welding aluminum (fuel tanks for our race boats-OMC (Outboard Marine Corp) factory team) in the mid 60's when you were still in elementary school.

                    My undergrad degree is in Civil Engineering from VA Tech. My graduate degree is in Industrial Engineering from the Univ. of Miami. I am a registered PE (Professional Engineer) in five states. I also happen to be a retired Colonel in the Army Corps of Engineers. I was commissioned in the Corps but went the Special Forces route during the Vietnam conflict (31 mos SE Asia). During the remainder of my career in mostly engineer assignments I also spent a fair amount of time working in the covert arena. That took me to 46 different foreign countries (many of which we don't admit a presence in) serving as eyes/ears for the Secretary of Defense.

                    Again I ask. Jealous? Of what? Surely not of a guy who's been breathing the stratified air of NASA, who's lost touch of what's happening in the real world.

                    I'm still waiting for your detailed answer (from a previous post) about how (as you stated) hi frequency cleans the oxides from the weld area. Are you really using hi freq continuous when DC welding aluminum?

                    Pangea. I'd be very careful if I were you. I've known guys who seriously injured their shoulders, patting themselves on the back.
                    SundownIII

                    Syncrowave 250DX, Tigrunner
                    Dynasty 200 DX w/CM 3
                    MM 251 w/30 A SG
                    HH 187 Mig
                    XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Pulser
                    Dialarc 250 w/HF 15-1
                    Hypertherm PM 1250 Plasma
                    Victor, Harris, and Smith O/A
                    PC Dry Cut Saw and (just added) Wilton (7x12) BS
                    Mil Mod 6370-21 Metal Cut Saw
                    More grinders than hands (Makita & Dewalt)
                    Grizzly 6"x48" Belt Sander
                    Access to full fab shop w/CNC Plasma & Waterjet
                    Gas mixers (Smith(2) and Thermco)
                    Miller BWE and BWE Dig

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Looks like I have finally discovered the root cause of your point of contention with my posts about DCEN. For some reason you think that I said that high frequency is used continuosly on DCEN process welding. I did not. The high freq is only used at start up. Doesn't everyone already know that?

                      That is some horn blowing that you are doing there for someone that is so against such actions. Mr.1.2 million dollar man! Do you have a hardon for all aerospace welders or is it just me? I guess the shipyard is lucky to have you. Must be especially easy for you in the the boat industry, what with the way you walk on water.

                      Do me a big favor and whisper in Gods ear that we here on earth would like it if he would let you reduce the force of gravity a little bit. Maybe get rid of mosquitoes too.
                      Two turn tables and a microphone.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        PACK YOUR BAGS....IT"S ARMAGEDDON....LOL
                        Some people require more attention than others.....Like a LOST DOG and strangers holding out biscuits....

                        Dynasty 350
                        Hobart Beta Mig 200
                        Twenty seven Hammers
                        Three Crow Bars
                        One English Springer Dog



                        A Big Rock

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Pangea,

                          You seem to have missed my point completely.

                          You are working in an area of welding that the general population can only read about, not experience first hand.

                          I have enjoyed reading many of your posts on these boards. They do give an insight into the future of welding. NASA is on the leading edge when it comes to the process of sticking metal together. Thats great. As we all know and understand, many of the welding techniques and machines we use today were developed with government support to support the defense industry. If not for the governments need to build aircraft faster, would we even have tig welders today? If not for the governments need to pass data rapidly and securely, would we even have the internet today? I think most can see where I'm going.

                          Tig welding started as a DC process. As better equipment was developed and we learned more about the cleaning effect of the DCEP cycle (AC), tig welding evolved into a process which could effectively be used by the general welding population. The development and introduction of the inverter based, advanced squarewave machines has taken AC welding to another level entirely.

                          The "extraordinary" cleaning, material inspection, filler selection, and use of helium as a covering gas are fine if cost is no issue. Have you priced a bottle of "lab grade" helium from your LWS. Combine that with the increased flow rate required due it's light weight (lighter than air), and you have a very high cost/per weld obtained. If you're competing against a guy using AC to accomplish the same thing, you're not going to get the job.

                          With that said, some of your posts do leave me scratching my head. Yes, I do know that (on most machines today) hi frequency is used for starting the arc and is not on continously for DC welding. The reason I asked was due to your comments in a previous post, where you stated that the hi freq at about 60,000 cycles per second, stirs up the oxides and cleans the aluminum. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

                          What I do have a hardon (your words) about, is your insinuation that if a welder is using AC to accomplish his job, he's a "less professional" welder than you are. That's just BS.

                          Another point which I disagree with you on (although this comes down to operator preference) is your continued recommendations for using thoriated tungsten for welding in the AC mode. Tungsten inclusion in the weld has always been a problem with thoriated tungsten when welding with AC. There are better (and safer if we're to believe the data) alternatives available. Personally, I like 2% Lanthanated tungsten better. On a standard squarewave machine (Syncrowave 250 for instance), I've had good luck on AC with Zirconiated tungsten. Both lanthanated and zirconiated tungstens were developed as a better/safer alternative to thoriated.

                          Quite frankly, I don't understand your low regard (almost disdain) for professional AC tig welders. After all, if the job dictates the process, most will use DC if they have to.

                          I've said my piece.

                          PS: Still waiting for that detailed explanation of how Hi-Freq cleans the oxides.
                          SundownIII

                          Syncrowave 250DX, Tigrunner
                          Dynasty 200 DX w/CM 3
                          MM 251 w/30 A SG
                          HH 187 Mig
                          XMT 304 w/714D Feeder & Optima Pulser
                          Dialarc 250 w/HF 15-1
                          Hypertherm PM 1250 Plasma
                          Victor, Harris, and Smith O/A
                          PC Dry Cut Saw and (just added) Wilton (7x12) BS
                          Mil Mod 6370-21 Metal Cut Saw
                          More grinders than hands (Makita & Dewalt)
                          Grizzly 6"x48" Belt Sander
                          Access to full fab shop w/CNC Plasma & Waterjet
                          Gas mixers (Smith(2) and Thermco)
                          Miller BWE and BWE Dig

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I want to hear the stories about welding stuff in SE Asia while being sniped on by Charlie.....
                            Some people require more attention than others.....Like a LOST DOG and strangers holding out biscuits....

                            Dynasty 350
                            Hobart Beta Mig 200
                            Twenty seven Hammers
                            Three Crow Bars
                            One English Springer Dog



                            A Big Rock

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I do just fine with the red and green. Ac or DC. A time or two I used AL stick. Agast! And then there is the big spool of .035 I finally got rid of on other projects. 4043 and 5356 for filler as the case decides.

                              Comment

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