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  • Certanium 705

    I was digging around in my welding stuff and found a container of Certanium. 705 welding rod. Any one know its properties? What is it designed for?

    Thanks
    Richard

  • #2
    Richard...for stuff I don't know about I google, and thinking your as an astute fella as I am who did that and found what I found, not much of anything, for the pleasure of those who like puzzles :
    https://www.lawsonproducts.com/image...chGuide_AD.pdf
    Find
    Certanium 705, good luck.

    That said, do a spark test on the bare end to gauge carbon. Run a bead to judge slag system. Then a simple fillet break test to identify hardness of deposit, and grain structure for evaluation. After that common sense and weld what's not critical you'll be mostly fine I'm sure.

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    • #3
      Thanks for the response Old Guy. The 705 came from a factory tear out in 1985 and it just got tucked under other stuff. I did Google until my keyboard over heated, and like you found nothing. Old Guys from 56 are just puppies. If I had your handle, it would terminate with 43........GRIN

      Richard
      Last edited by RLS7201; 03-12-2019, 09:30 PM.

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      • #4
        You win! LOL! I'm thinking you have a good reason to GRIN, lol...43...I'm going to have to change my name? I'm sure you have more then a few memories! Lol. I'm going to say, congratulations! Sir.

        Lawson Products brings back a memory. Salesman made it into the shop and dropped off catalogues, showed a few products, demo's a few, and while pricy, a bit speciality if that's what sold a guy, all seemed to address that they saved you money. Introduced me to flap disc's, never looked back. I also was introduce to a Philips posi drive screw driver that has been hands done, a superior tool.

        So Richard, do a spark test by chance? I'm guessing higher carbon, low hydrogen slag and sold as a higher tensile I promise it'll never break thru the weld rod. If you don't end up finding something more detailed to explain composition of the rod, run a bead on a piece of plate, quench and file. That will tell you hardness. Might suggest also if you were going to weld up your own anvil...that could be the rod.

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        • #5
          A plant I used to work in bought a pile of Certainium electrodes from a salesman one time. They weld so nicely. Certainium even had some stainless electrodes that would weld out of position so well, very sluggish puddle.
          There are a couple problems with the Certainium electrodes however, they are/were not AWS certified electrodes, the other problem is the cost. They were substantially higher cost then a AWS certified electrode. The company couldn't justify spending 2-3 times as much for welding electrodes that didn't meet code quality spec so they never ordered them again.
          705 is listed as for welding high strength, high carbon or cast steels. Sounds like a cast iron capable electrode.
          Last edited by snoeproe; 03-13-2019, 08:14 AM.
          Lincoln Idealarc 250
          Miller Bobcat 250
          Thermal arc Hefty 2 feeder
          Thermal Dynamics Cusmaster 52
          Torchmate CNC Table

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          • #6
            Originally posted by snoeproe View Post
            A plant I used to work in bought a pile of Certainium electrodes from a salesman one time. They weld so nicely. Certainium even had some stainless electrodes that would weld out of position so well, very sluggish puddle.
            There are a couple problems with the Certainium electrodes however, they are/were not AWS certified electrodes, the other problem is the cost. They were substantially higher cost then a AWS certified electrode. The company couldn't justify spending 2-3 times as much for welding electrodes that didn't meet code quality spec so they never ordered them again.
            705 is listed as for welding high strength, high carbon or cast steels. Sounds like a cast iron capable electrode.
            I wasn't sure about bringing that up in conversation? I'm also not sure to what degree it should bother that they're not? Does it bother me? It mostly doesn't. It's also a rationalization of understanding that reduces my concerns? I like to think that "Certified" means something. At the same time...? If a different governing body certifies them, does one sleep better?
            One thing is Certanium... those rods.

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            • #7
              It only matters if your doing pressure or structural work and your shop has its guys tested and ticketed to do so. In this case, you can't use these type of rods for this type of work.
              But for farm work, they're great as long as you don't mind paying the high price for them. The plant I worked at bought a large batch of different Certanium electrodes. The purchasing department almost went through the roof when they got the bill. That was the last time.
              Last edited by snoeproe; 03-14-2019, 07:51 AM.
              Lincoln Idealarc 250
              Miller Bobcat 250
              Thermal arc Hefty 2 feeder
              Thermal Dynamics Cusmaster 52
              Torchmate CNC Table

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by snoeproe View Post
                It only matters if your doing pressure or structural work and your shop has its guys tested and ticketed to do so. In this case, you can't use these type of rods for this type of work.
                But for farm work, they're great as long as you don't mind paying the high price for them. The plant I worked at bought a large batch of different Certanium electrodes. The purchasing department almost went through the roof when they got the bill. That was the last time.
                When doing pressure or structural to "code", the key words are "qualify the procedure". As you mentioned, cost comes into play. Since these electrodes don't meet a standard of conformity, if they were specified for use thru testing, then they could be used for those purposes, but it would rule out the use of other brands unless tests to meet the same requirements were done for inclusion which would add to cost.

                1939 Buick. Notice the hidden gas cap. Ask the question, when did that become common place on automobiles? Was it a necessity or luxury? In an off handed way, it doesn't meet the standard of the day for conformity as most gas caps just poked thru and were capped. Doesn't mean it was not suitable, fit for service, just different from the standard of what was being done.

                I'm sure on some basis, these electrodes types as manufactured meet the "basics" for inclusion in the standard, they also must deviate enough to avoid inclusion as well. They could fail just because they didn't want to reference AWS, ASME or simply in packaging standards? I'm sure however it had to do with a cost some where in manufacturing.

                Another electrode example is E6019. A flux system of blended composition between lime/basic and rutile electrode coatings. Only recently added to the AWS classification of electrodes it's been around for years over seas in Europe. It's now recognized but it wasn't with great noise of announcement that's for sure.

                As it goes, it's an electrode used for welding. Maybe over qualified, unrecognized, but still capable of doing the job of joining two pieces together. It's up to the user to decide when and where, and if it's fit for the purpose in doing so.

                That said, just because I hold a scalpel, it doesn't make me a surgeon? Same could be said for the rod? That's why things meet a standard of conformity and are pre qualified. If it's already been done and proven, it costs less to produce. The next burden then is testing the welder to confirm he can qualify to the task of doing if it's required to do so for the need to meet standards in place to confirm results.

                So...Richard has a bunch of electrodes, I say it's time to weld something together. If he knows how to weld, he's most of the way there?








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                • #9
                  Thanks guys for all your input.

                  As was previously said "just because I hold a scalpel, it doesn't make me a surgeon".
                  I'm not a professional welder. I was a production maintenance welder, electrician, mechanic, pneumatics, hydraulics, boiler operator, HVAC tech, etc.,. So just because I can make a puddle doesn't make me a welder. I'm more of a hack of all trades. GRIN. I'll take the rod to a friend's weld shop and tell him your responses.

                  Thanks
                  Richard

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