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  • HH210 requires different regulator for CO2?

    Does anybody know why I need a different regulator to use CO2 on my HH 210. If its just the fitting to get the tank hooked up, can buy that and use my regulator that came with the welder.

  • #2
    A regulator designed for Argon or Argon mixed gases is designed differently than a CO2 regulator. When running straight CO2 through your mixed gas regulator can cause the regulator to freeze and possibly damage the regulator.

    Keith

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    • #3
      These days a Co2 reg has a stainless steel seat assembly and a specific type of diaphragm, at least the good ones have

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      • #4
        CGA-320 fittings are used for CARBON DIOXIDE systems.

        CGA-580 fittings are used for ARGON, HELIUM & NITROGEN systems.

        Western Enterprises #806 Adapter will allow you to 'cheat' your argon/mixed gas MIG regulator onto a CO2 tank.

        http://tinyurl.com/9vu99g

        "Adaptors should not be used as permanent installations. For long-term use. the appropriate CGA regulator should be used on all cylinders and gas systems."

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        • #5
          Hobart had problems with Argon regulators adapted to use CO2 gas freezing and not working right after. That is why manuals have warning not to use CO2 with Argon regulators and such use is considered abuse not covered by warranty. This can happen even in warm weather.

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          • #6
            I guess my next question is why does Hobart supply a regulator that is of such poor quality?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by 500sks View Post
              I guess my next question is why does Hobart supply a regulator that is of such poor quality?
              What makes you think it's poor quality? It works absolutely fine for its intended, stated purpose, which is Argon and Argon/mixed gases.

              If you ruin a screwdriver by pounding on it as a cold chisel, your misuse of the tool doesn't make it "poor quality."
              Trailblazer 302 * Millermatic 212 * Syncrowave 180SD * X-Treme 12VS Feeder * Spoolmate 3035
              Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52 Plasma * Lincoln 175 MIG

              Victor Superrange II * Victor Journeyman

              Hobart HH 125EZ


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              • #8
                500sks,

                Before you jump to the wrong conclusions (quality of the regulators) you need to read the first three responses to your post again. Then you may want to check out the Smith, Victor, and Harris flowmeter/regulator info as well, they must all make poor quality regulators because they do not recommend straight co2 on their argon regulators either. In higher temperatures with high humidity I have had regulators designed for co2 freeze up when running 30 CFH with 3/32" flux cored wire.
                DrIQ

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                • #9
                  There is liquid CO2 in bottom of CO2 cylinder with gas above the liquid until cylinder pressure is below CO2 vapor pressure which varies depending on temperature. When CO2 in cylinder is below vapor pressure all the CO2 in cylinder is gas.

                  When you start flowing withdrawing gas, from above liquid in bottom of cylinder, a CO2 fog will form above the liquid and flow out with the CO2 gas. In air conditioning this fog is called latent heat because the small liquid CO2 particles needs to absorb heat to change to CO2 gas. This heat will be absorbed readily from metal cylinder walls, metal of regulator, metal or rubber regulator diaphragm causing anything else it touches to get cold quickly. A low flow CO2 regulator for a beer keg will not have problem freezing. A higher flow rated CO2 regulator might have built in heat exchanging fins to help prevent freezing. For even higher and or prolong flow rates the regulator would have electric heater to prevent freezing.

                  CO2 fire extinguisher has quick acting cylinder valve supplying HP hose or tube to small orifice at narrow end of the cone shaped plastic horn. A dip tube draws liquid CO2 from bottom of cylinder and sprays it out of the orifice. Quickly forming expanding CO2 fog that absorbs heat and displaces air/O2 at base of fire, putting out the fire. . This fog can also cause frostbite if sprayed on skin.

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                  • #10
                    So a CO2 regulator is not to be used with argon/CO2 mix? I used to work in a shop with MM200 with CO2 and we used wire with a flux in the wire. The tank had a regulator with a flowmeter with a tube and a ball in it to show flow rate. Is this the type that should be used with CO2? Thanks for trying to help me get this straight.

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                    • #11
                      500sks, if you check out any of the online welding suppliers, you'll find dozens and dozens of different gas regulators depending on the application, including some specifically for argon/co2 mixes. That's probably what your former shop was using.

                      Jeff
                      LINCOLN IdealArc Tig 300/300
                      MILLER Millermatic 211 Mig
                      NAPA Buzz Box
                      HARRIS Oxy-Acetylene Torch Set
                      MILLER-JACKSON (hybrid) and Harbor Freight AD Helmets
                      Harbor Freight Tig, Plasma & Spot
                      LINCOLN SP135+ Mig (Sold)

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                      • #12
                        The problem is using some argon regulators with 100% CO2 not with Argon/CO2 welding mixes. These mixes are in cylinders with Argon CGA-580 Cylinder valve while 100% CO2 has it's own CGA-320 valve. Argon CO2 mix wouldn't have liquid CO2 at bottom of cylinder unless partial pressure of CO2 is above CO2 vapor pressure. This would happen with Argon and 20% CO2 below about 20F for full 2000psi cylinder. If small percent of CO2 did change to liquid it would only lower then raise CO2 gas percent in mix withdrawn and probably not cause regulator to freeze.

                        http://www.s-ohe.com/carbon%20dioxide.html

                        You can buy adapters to use CO2 regulator on Argon cylinder but some CO2 regulators are only rated for 1800psi while Argon cylinders with CGA-580 outlet fitting can have 3000psi maximum pressure.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 500sks View Post
                          So a CO2 regulator is not to be used with argon/CO2 mix? I used to work in a shop with MM200 with CO2 and we used wire with a flux in the wire. The tank had a regulator with a flowmeter with a tube and a ball in it to show flow rate. Is this the type that should be used with CO2? Thanks for trying to help me get this straight.
                          Some Flow meters can be used for Argon, Helium, CO2 and Argon/CO2

                          http://store.cyberweld.com/smflreh2.html

                          but notice the Fitting is a 580 so you still would need the adapter

                          or you can get a CO2 Flow Meter

                          http://store.cyberweld.com/smco2flre30s1.html
                          Ed Conley
                          Screaming Broccoli, Inc
                          http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
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                          "Hold my beer while I try this!"

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Broccoli1 View Post
                            Some Flow meters can be used for Argon, Helium, CO2 and Argon/CO2

                            http://store.cyberweld.com/smflreh2.html

                            but notice the Fitting is a 580 so you still would need the adapter

                            or you can get a CO2 Flow Meterut

                            http://store.cyberweld.com/smco2flre30s1.html
                            Regulator at the link is a piston regulator consisting of a piston with 2 O-rings and a soft seat. Not much to break. A guy in La Jolla, Ca. invented the Scuba Star piston regulator for Healthways. Didn't apply for patent because it was unbalanced. Soon many companies made exact copies of his regulator. Very reliable and cheap to make. Good chance linked regulator uses scuba star piston.

                            My Lincoln MIG welder came with a flowgage regulator like what is included with Hobart MIG welders but it included CO2 adapter that I have never used.

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                            • #15
                              Manufacturers make regulators for a specific purpose as in CO2 or Argon mixtures or whatever gas, they have a specific type of connection to the cylinder, there are different pressures, seat composition, etc, you should NEVER adapt anything to change there specs as you could be endangering your safety and the safety of others around you. Just buy one that suits your purpose and dont listen to some salesman that has not got a clue about anything except making a sale!!!!

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