67 cf cylinder

[Ravman]

I just got off of the phone with my LWS. I called looking for prices for cylinders and the price to fill one with 75/25. He told me that the largest i could buy would be a 67 cf for $135 and it would cost 35.50 plus haz. fee to fill it.

In my short time in the hobby i have never heard of that size cylinder. I did a search and could find no mention of them on Google or this section of Weld Talk.

Are they trying to pass off a smaller cylinder as a 67 cf? He said it is about knee high tall which seems short to me to be 67 cf.

thanks

[greywynd]

Sounds like a 60cf cylinder that is over-rated...which means they can fill it to higher than standard pressures.

I have several 60's myself, I can get more welding out of a mig bottle than tig, due to being able to weld faster, less purge time on the gas before and after welding etc. That's with using about 28 cf/h while migging, and about 20 cf/h while tigging.

[Ravman]

Thanks greywynd

[Roger]

What's this haz fee? Another tax? I expect CO2 fee and haz fee plus anything else they can dream up placed on petro fuel so they can pretend ethanol fuel is competitive. Like the 300+ MPG rating on electric cars. With that mileage should be able to drive 1000 miles on one tank of electricity.

[Dmaxer1]

What's this haz fee? Another tax?

The LWS's say the Haz (hazardous materials) fee is to offset their administrative and production costs for MSDS's made available to the consumer in compliance with government regulations. The Haz fees they charge seem a bit steep to me for just that. I wonder if this government regulation was just the excuse they needed to increase profit by forcing us to pay more of their general overhead yet not raise their catalog prices?

[sunpeople]

Is that HAZ. fee a one time deal or is that every time you get the bottle filled? I get charged a HAZ fee every time i get an exchange on one of my 250CF argon bottles and its about 3 bucks, they tell me its for the hydro on the bottle and to pay for the MSDS info for the customers that ask for it.

If they are charging you a 35 dollar HAZ mat fee every time you fill your bottle i think i would be calling some other welding stores because that just does not seem right to me, sounds like a little extra money making scam to me.

[Thurman]

I just had my 40 CF bottle of C-25 exchanged at my local Airgas store ($32.00). When I got the paperwork I checked and sure enough there was that "HazMat Fee-$6.00". Now this is not as high as I have heard others complain about but I wanted to push the issue as to what it was for. I told the salesperson, who I know well, "Please explain the $6.00 Hazmat Fee and I will pay it, if you can't explain it I will do business across town". He got up, fussing the whole time not quite loud enough for me to hear, went to a wall display and started taking one sheet of paper at the time from various bins on the wall. When he had a stack of paperwork about 3/8" thick he gave them to me and stated "That's what the Federal Government requires us to give you when you have a bottle of compressed gas exchanged, that's what your $6.00 is for, all those papers". So, I have to ask, "do you give all of your customers whom you charge the Hazmat Fee these papers when they exchange a bottle?" Well, I think you know th answer--of course not, just dumba$$ like me who ask for them. I laid them on the counter and told him I really didn't need them and he told me I would take them home or wear them out of the store-remember we know each other well. If I leave them he has to restock them or trash them. But that's the explanation of the Hazmat Fee I got from my local Airgas salesperson. Now-this guy is really smart in the field of welding, but sometimes I wonder about his everyday street smarts. Thanks, David

[Ravman]

i finally picked up the cylinder 2 weeks ago and it is actually a 40cf that is rated to a higher pressure and i told the guy that there is no way that they are getting 67cf of gas in that small of a cylinder. he said they are and it will handle it. the bottle was at 2000psi when i put the regulator on it. is he right? i think they are misleading people by saying that these cylinders can hold about 70%more cf than what the cylinder says on it. anyways i'm a newbie and this should last me about 6-8 months at the rate i'm welding right now.

as to they haz. fee, they included it into the fill price of 35.50.

[Roger]

Allowed Max cylinder pressure is stamped on shoulder of cylinder. If first and later hydro date stamps are followed by a + then it can be charged 10% above stamped pressure. If the first hydro date stamp is followed by a + then the extra 10% pressure is required to get advertised gas volume is what I was always told but they seem to be saying it increases volume above advertised volume.

Your stating a 40CF cylinder is filled with 67CF of gas when filled with 10% more pressure doesn't make sense. If you have in writing that they are calling a 40CF cylinder 67CF that isn't legal. They can sell gas for what ever they want and it often isn't really really charged by cubic foot as smaller cylinders cost almost as much to handle as larger cylinders with charging and handling major part of cost.

To know how much gas the cylinder holds I would measure water volume it holds in cubic inches then calculate compressed gas in full cylinder at max pressure. You could also calculate amount of gas in cylinder by full and empty weight.

This is all trivia as I don't think your being over charged which you can check by asking prices at other gas dealers. Counter person selling gas often knows very little or are mis informed about what they are selling.

[FormerTankSarge]

Looks like some of the LWS are trying to make some extra bucks. Hazmat fees vary much here, no reason, just cause they can.

[Jim-Tx]

I pay $39 for a 244 cu ft cylinder and no haz mat charges that I'm aware of. These guys are local and straight shooters.

http://www.carrollwelding.com/gas_industrial.html