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  • Plasma moisture effects.

    Hey, i have a question about moisture in compressed air. My compressor is at its max. I have two filters, one at the plasma and one at the compressor. Both are canister type moister collectors with debris filter. Would a 1 1/2" X 8" drop with drain help if installed before the plasma filter or just rob cfm's. I can only imagine the moisture problem here in Virginia during August dog days. I am going to get a larger compressor in a few months but was just wondering what are the side effects of moisture in the compressed air. I understand low consumable life is one issue but what else. Thanks for any info. Also since i am new to the plasma realm are there any hard and true tips on using the plasma. It sure does make the work projects fun to do by not buying costly gas. Thanks again...........
    Fireman Bill

    HH 210 MVP
    MM 211
    Spoolmate 100
    Lotas LTP5000D Plasma
    Oxy/Accet (Victor)
    Wards AC/DC buzz box
    30 ton old hyd press
    A few brand name tools
    A bunch of cheap tools
    A wife to worry me and
    4 dogs to supervise me

  • #2
    You don't say with the 'Max' is, but I'd first off, lower the pressure the compressor cuts off at to the maximum plasma input which shoud be about 100 PSI. Lowering the pressure lowers the amount of heating of the compressed air and lowers the dew point as well.

    The farther away the plasma cutter is from the compressor the better off you are (unless yo use a refrigerated dryer) then you want the compressor as close to the dryer as possible because you want the dryer to receive hot compressed air as the dryer cools the hot air and in doing so, lowers the dew point and causes the moisture to liberate itself from the compressed air.

    Put the compressor in another room and hard line it to the plasma. The hard line will reduce thetemperature and it will collect moisture which can be drained off. I slope all my hardlines and have ball valve drains at each vertical drop to drain off moisture.

    Above all, put a Motorguard cannister filter on the back of the plasma with a 5 micron cartridge inside. It will get everything detrimental to the plasma and increase the consumable life, money well spent.

    If you run a refrigerated dryer like I do, you want the incoming compressed air(to the dryer) to be between 125 degrees and 175 degrees so the dryer can get the moisture out. Thats why, on rotary screw compressors, they are usually packaged with an integral refrigerated air dryer, the dryer receives hot compressed air and cools it and pulls out the moisture in one unit.

    So long as the compressor will deliver enough CFM and pressure to satisify the largest air coinsuming tool you have, there is no need to get a bigger unit.
    So little time...So many machine tools.........
    www.flipmeisters.com

    Miller, Hobart & Lincoln TIG/MIG/-
    Hypertherm Plasma (Thanks Jim)
    Plasma-Cam DHC (coming shortly)
    Harris OA
    Too many motorcycles.............-
    sigpic

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    • #3
      I think motorguards website has a bad layout I always forget where their layout diagram is but here is one.

      http://www.sharpe1.com/sharpe/sharpe...+Piping+Layout

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      • #4
        Always liked TP Tools better...includes another dogleg upwards after coming off the feed.
        Miller 251, Lincoln PrecisionTig 275, Miller DialArc 250 AC/DC, Hypertherm 900, Bridgeport J-head, Jet 14" lathe, South Bend 9" lathe, Hossfeld bender with a collection of dies driving me to the poorhouse, Logan shaper, Ellis 3000 bandsaw, Royersford drill press and a Victor Journeyman O/A.

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        • #5
          Those Ridge Tool pipe threaders come in handy..... Stick lengths of black pipe are cheaper.

          I got all my fittings used from a salvage place. Pipe fittings never wear out. All my WOG ball valves came from Plumbing Supplies.com.

          I didn't bring my drops from the top but rather put ball valves on each one to evacuate the condensate..

          I disagree with Mike's layout with the dryer away from the compressor. You want the dryer as close to the compressor as possible. Let the dryer pull the moisture, not the pipe condensing it. You want the air over ambient temperature to the dryer. Thats why most packaged rotaries have the dryer in the cabinet with the compressor.

          Go as large as possible with supply piping. I ran 1" main runs and 3/4" drops.

          Coalescing filters work but are no replacement for a refrigerated dryer or point of use filters, especially with plasma cutters. Coalescing filters get the moisture but only a cartridge filter like the Motorguard removes the oil mist that is always present when you use a reciprocating compressor.

          But then, there is no 'right way' because every layout is different, plus I have 3 compressors in the system and will probably add another large receiver when I finish installing the air supply into the adjacent building.

          Always isolate the compressor(s) from the supply piping. Metal braid isolator hoses (like show in the TPI drawing) are expensive. I used 1 wire hydraulic hoses with NPT fittings, about 1/10th the price of the braided isolators and do the same job.

          Just remember to slope the supply lines slightly, especially on long runs. You want condensate to run downhill, not lay in the pipe.

          I'm going to go with sweated copper in the adjacent building just because.
          Last edited by SidecarFlip; 03-03-2013, 07:50 PM.
          So little time...So many machine tools.........
          www.flipmeisters.com

          Miller, Hobart & Lincoln TIG/MIG/-
          Hypertherm Plasma (Thanks Jim)
          Plasma-Cam DHC (coming shortly)
          Harris OA
          Too many motorcycles.............-
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Many Ma & Pa shops have horrible air-plumbing.
            I've convinced a few employers to let me make a few low-cost mods over the years.

            A few shops "blew-down" the air at close of second shift.
            This is a senceless practice, now the system has to suck in the "fresh" morning air,
            which is about as damp as it gets.

            I encourage oversize piping thru-out, and blowdowns like 'V' in Roy's post.
            Weekly blowdown each leg of the system for a few seconds per 20 ft. of pipe.
            Do this at the dryest time of day in your region.

            At least have a 'Drip-leg (like used for natural-gass) at the bottom of every non-valved drop.
            This too catches debriss and the odd inexplicable object before it get's into your tooling.

            CheeriO'
            sigpicViceGrip
            Negative people have a problem for every solution

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            • #7
              I can't say how Killer would react to being called Ma, but this Pa keeps on working on the shop's airline. Flipper may be correct about plumbing fittings never wearing out, but I have a corollary...Chicom plumbing fittings are about as leak resistant as using those sintered metal particle fuel filters in an air line! Here are a few pictures of the way I went with mine...
              Attached Files
              Miller 251, Lincoln PrecisionTig 275, Miller DialArc 250 AC/DC, Hypertherm 900, Bridgeport J-head, Jet 14" lathe, South Bend 9" lathe, Hossfeld bender with a collection of dies driving me to the poorhouse, Logan shaper, Ellis 3000 bandsaw, Royersford drill press and a Victor Journeyman O/A.

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              • #8
                Roy ................ ?? ........... !!
                Hear's my gut for what it's worth.

                I have seen many of your pics and attachments lately.
                I have assembled a composite image of "Roy" (Wyoming)
                It's all just ... gut!

                I even have a non-deliberate image of Killer (your wife),
                even thO' I've met neither of you in person.
                The pics of the beautifull furniture triggered it I think...??

                OK... here's my gut

                Don't move! (as in relocate)!
                There's no accuracy in this, I'm not like my Wife.
                If she said it, it would be different.
                As in listen or pick out a casket!

                I just don't want you to join Sundown & Mike W, yet....

                Regards
                Phil
                sigpicViceGrip
                Negative people have a problem for every solution

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                • #9
                  Phil, Phil, Phil...Uncle Roy will probably in all likelihood hire pros to do the house content move. As for the shop, piece of cake...and BTW you haven't seen the half of it.
                  Miller 251, Lincoln PrecisionTig 275, Miller DialArc 250 AC/DC, Hypertherm 900, Bridgeport J-head, Jet 14" lathe, South Bend 9" lathe, Hossfeld bender with a collection of dies driving me to the poorhouse, Logan shaper, Ellis 3000 bandsaw, Royersford drill press and a Victor Journeyman O/A.

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                  • #10
                    One thing I don't like to do is badger folks.
                    I won't bring this up again. I wasn't basing it on circumstantial likelyhood.

                    Just this odd "where'd Roy go?" feeling.
                    I'm sure you will do what fits!!

                    PS;
                    There are certainly spots along the Misouri River I would describe as God's country.
                    I been there!!
                    CheeriO'
                    Phil
                    sigpicViceGrip
                    Negative people have a problem for every solution

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Phil, I had to look...yep, Missouri River goes through Montana. It looks like we will probably settle for a move across the border around the Billings, MT area. Great hospitals up there and the area is similar to what we have here. Downside is the state income tax, but RR Retirement isn't taxed in any state...as far as I know. The break in not having sales tax is offset with the higher property taxes. Much as I would like to settle into retirement in Missouri, Killer is not too shiny on the state. The heat, higher population density/crime and tornadoes all have her wanting to stay in her comfort zone. Can't exactly say I blame her. We would stick it out here, but the local doctors all wear masks and shake rattles for their bedside manner, the local tax base isn't that large and the governments can't wean themselves off expensive projects (the fire station downtown has mable floors!!!) while none too secretly funding their pet projects at the taxpayers' expense with municipal bonds at a rate that makes Fresno, CA look possitively inviting...wish I could get in on one of their bond sales! Seems strange to me that a city with a triple AAA rating issues bonds whose interest rate makes it appear like they were sub-junk bond rated. If coal ever takes a long term plunge as it is right now the locals are gonna get raped on taxes....six million bill for just the TVs in the local rec. center they just built.

                      Now as far as moving the shop. I have access to a forklift here as well as the typical engine hoist. Flatbed and Cummins diesel Dodge should be well able to handle the chores. Neither the house nor the shop needs to be sold prior to purchasing new ones, so we can be leisurely about it. I'm pretty sure you, pop and Flipper are going to have to put up with my rantings and ravings for years to come.
                      Last edited by Wyoming; 03-04-2013, 09:45 AM. Reason: Spell czechin'
                      Miller 251, Lincoln PrecisionTig 275, Miller DialArc 250 AC/DC, Hypertherm 900, Bridgeport J-head, Jet 14" lathe, South Bend 9" lathe, Hossfeld bender with a collection of dies driving me to the poorhouse, Logan shaper, Ellis 3000 bandsaw, Royersford drill press and a Victor Journeyman O/A.

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