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  • #31
    Well.........

    And rosebud is a 8-T29 whatever size that is....

    Guess us amateurs make thing work out of ignorance that professionals can't because of training.......

    Was able to heat a section of railroad track (mini anvil for grandson) to red heat so I could drift a 3/4 square hard hole (after drilling to 11/16) for hardy tools took about 3 heats about 20-25 minutes each heat and never had any indication of starvation of acetylene...

    Dale
    "Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson..

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    • #32

      "Guess us amateurs make thing work out of ignorance that professionals can't because of training......."

      That's one way of looking at it. Professionals also know enough to reduce the risk and the hazards that may be encountered from their training and advise accordingly.

      That said, back fires and flash back are two different conditions. Heating with low gas pressure comes with increased risk but also is dependent on how low the pressure is being used, and also a secondary event to set things off.

      Like a guy who doesn't put stands under a car when it resting on a jack and he's under it. You could just remain lucky or you might one day win the lotto.

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      • #33
        Well I guess my lack of knowledge is a hazard to all... I request everyone ignore anything I have posted as it seems to be wrong ...

        Dale
        "Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson..

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        • #34
          Not saying that either. But I will say just because you or I can and do or did, doesn't make it right. Jjust that we did and the world didn't end because of it and maybe there was a reason for it. If that reason was dumb luck then so be it? If it was the odds weren't so great it happening, so be it. But If you were running unbalanced gas pressures, say excessive oxygen, was running low in the little B tank, lack of Acetylene gas pressure, over heated the torch with close contact squeezing every bit of the diminishing flame...them maybe.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dale M. View Post
            Well I guess my lack of knowledge is a hazard to all... I request everyone ignore anything I have posted as it seems to be wrong ...

            Dale
            No need for the above, or the pro-am garbage, or all the irrelevant pics, etc.

            If you look at my last post, you will notice that I did not say you were "wrong"; only that I was "puzzled"! Also, I offered two solutions: that you were lucky, or that you actually had a smaller rosebud.

            Since my last post, I did some further searching to find out what was available in smaller than Esab- Victor #4-MFA rosebuds. {I was using a tip chart from Victor-Thermadyne, shown below, guessing that would approximate your tip data (2011)}. Click image for larger version  Name:	2011 Victor thermadyne Rosebuds .png Views:	0 Size:	201.5 KB ID:	706266



            I tried a search using the tip # you supplied, but this did not turn up any Victor tips, possibly because Victor had changed numbering after being merged with Esab. I then looked for a later Esab-Victor tip chart, shown below:

            Click image for larger version  Name:	Recent Victor Rosebuds .png Views:	0 Size:	69.3 KB ID:	706267

            As you can see, this chart shows a #2 MFA rosebud with a min. acetylene draw of 3 SCFH, thus making it just possible to work with the smaller acetylene cylinder you have, along as you do not use max Psi., under the 1/10 rule for intermittent use, and even more possible using the old 1/7 rule, which most mfgs. have not changed.! Also, be aware that the I/10 draw limit is Increased to 1/15 for "continuous use"

            So, for the OP, you can go ahead and follow Dale's advice, as long as you make sure you get a #2 MFA Victor rosebud or smaller. (I think there may be aftermarket "victor Type" out there with #1 or smaller)

            Also, to other posters, I, and most of the weldors I know or knew, are not sticklers for rules, except those involving risk to self or others. You can do anything you want, and for the most part, I will hold your beer, while you try it, and let Darwin look after the result!
            Last edited by Northweldor; 10-06-2019, 08:56 AM.

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            • #36
              GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE.....

              What is all this data and charts? I didn't realize using a torch required knowing all this!
              Am I going to die in a fiery garage explosion?
              "He who is without oil shall throw the first rod."
              Compressions 9.7:1

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              • #37
                http://www.tzsupplies.com/genuine-vi...ebud-i5124443/

                Update : I cleaned all the soot and carbon off the rosebud and the head has an "8" embossed in side....

                Dale
                Last edited by Dale M.; 10-06-2019, 09:25 PM.
                "Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson..

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                • #38
                  Speed of flame propagation, that's why they want enough gas pressure, so the Acetylene gas when lit, is out of the smoke range for correct safe use. Volume of the cylinder is important, because it takes time for Acetylene gas to leave solution and collection to be drawn without pulling acetone as it does from high draw rates.
                  All C2H2 cylinders will hold a collection, but that collected volume diminishes quickly with use depending on cylinder size and the draw from the attachment in use, welding tip, cutting tip or heating tip. That as well depends on the size of the orifice and the amount of them. A cutting torch has 4 to 6, add two more you have 8 holes and call it a rosebud.

                  4/8 PSIG, 3/9 SCFH, that's a point spread.

                  As far as your charts go, you mention the minimum gas and say it's ok go for it, why not address the min. and max volume requirement with an explanation so an informed decision could be made to the riskiness of the behaviour in doing so?

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1186.JPG
Views:	22
Size:	63.2 KB
ID:	706271 Maybe there's another reason for all the different cylinder sizes available besides just storage capacity?

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                  • #39
                    The above is fairly accurate but needless complication of the answer, and the OP is already overwhelmed. When someone asks me for the time, I do not explain how my quartz watch works. He can ask if he wants to know

                    As far as your charts go, you mention the minimum gas and say it's ok go for it, why not address the min. and max volume requirement with an explanation so an informed decision could be made to the riskiness of the behaviour in doing so?

                    Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_1186.JPG Views:	2 Size:	63.2 KB ID:	706271 Maybe there's another reason for all the different cylinder siz

                    You do not read well. I did not tell the OP to" go for" anything. The OP chose Dale's advice, after I initially suggested a 40% cheaper alternative , which both you and Dale rained on. Also, Dale has been "risking" for 30 years with no reported consequences, because both the 1/7 and 1/10 rules have a wide margin of safety. ( A flash-back and subsequent fire was the reason I took my first welding course at age 16, and I have been using OA equipment safely for the ensuing 70 years, sonny!).

                    There are many reasons, for different cylinder sizes, but different needs for different jobs sums it up, as MAC702 pointed out above.
                    Last edited by Northweldor; 10-06-2019, 02:03 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Nipper View Post
                      GOOD GRIEF PEOPLE.....

                      What is all this data and charts? I didn't realize using a torch required knowing all this!
                      Am I going to die in a fiery garage explosion?
                      No, but rosebuds are kind of touchy, Here is a brief but clear explanation of why:

                      http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/...g-torch-5.html

                      It wouldn't hurt you to read the other 5 parts too.

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                      • #41
                        Why did you post this? Is this a pic of your tip? If so, you could have saved us all a lot of time by saying that your Victor rosebud had a replaceable tip.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Northweldor View Post

                          Why did you post this? Is this a pic of your tip? If so, you could have saved us all a lot of time by saying that your Victor rosebud had a replaceable tip.
                          It was a dumb attempt to cross reference the size of my rose bud because it was the only documentation or nearly so that referenced the "*8-T29" tip to a "8 MFA-1"... Again another faltering attempt to rain in some of my bad information with some hopeful clarity.... But I guess not....

                          Dale
                          Last edited by Dale M.; 10-06-2019, 09:34 PM.
                          "Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson..

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Dale M. View Post

                            It was a dumb attempt to cross reference the size of my rose bud because it was the only documentation or nearly so that referenced the "*8-T29" tip to a "8 MFA-1"... Again another faltering attempt to rain in some of my bad information with some hopeful clarity.... But I guess not....

                            Dale
                            I think this chart may have your cross-reference, showing that what you have is a #2 rosebud.:

                            Click image for larger version  Name:	Recent HD Cat Of Rosebuds .png Views:	0 Size:	220.5 KB ID:	706279

                            If you look about halfway down on the top chart, you see a part# 0324-0108, and, reading across, type MFA-1, then the size. which is 2.

                            When you go to the lower MFA chart and you can see that the acetylene consumption for # 2 is 3 to 9 SCFH, so, as long as you keep your regulator set in the lower range of the of the 4-8 PSI setting, you should be at fairly low risk of drawing any acetone. You won't get max. BTU's, but at least, no backfires or acetone, on intermittent use. Maybe you have been doing this for the last 30 years!
                            Last edited by Northweldor; 10-07-2019, 08:13 AM.

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                            • #44
                              I am totally confused by your insistence that I have a #2 when everything on my torch says "8"... Where is xreference to cross correlation... To me I see you arbitrarily choosing a torch head where numbers do not match... Totally dazed and confused....

                              Dale
                              Last edited by Dale M.; 10-07-2019, 11:05 AM.
                              "Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson..

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Dale M. View Post
                                I am totally confused by your insistence that I have a #2 when everything on my torch says "8"... Where is xreference to cross correlation... To me I see you arbitrarily choosing a torch head where numbers do not match... Totally dazed and confused....

                                Dale
                                No confusion and nothing "arbitrary". Just look at the consumption figures on the chart above. If you had a size #8 torch you would be using 30 min. SCFH to 80 max SCFH per hour, which,
                                at max, would empty your acetylene cylinder in the first "25 minute heat", if you COULD actually draw that much! Plus, if you ever used a #8 osebud, the first thing you would notice is that the outer envelope is about three feet long, and roaring! Does this look and sound like your rosebud?

                                Also, look at the Victor part # on the rosebud I said might be yours: 0324-0108 MFA-1. Sound familiar?

                                If you still don't understand, maybe this article from Harris, will help. Your B cylinder is listed at 33CF , but just imagine using a tiny rosebud with an 8CF MC cylinder!

                                Click image for larger version  Name:	Harris Rosebud Tip Use .png Views:	1 Size:	318.9 KB ID:	706284
                                Attached Files
                                Last edited by Northweldor; 10-07-2019, 01:44 PM.

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