Help - Victor Regulator Problem

[Adultoys]

Hello Everyone, I want to say thanks in advance, i've used the site for quite sometime just as a spectator & just recently opened an account so now is my time to add to the site.

First This is what i have -
About a month ago I purchased a real nice used oxy-ace outfit. Its an older unit & i really like the looks. the guy i purchased it from was about 45 & it was his dads, he passed away about 10 yrs ago so now they are clearing out items. (just to date the items) This is a victor set with the 315 torch, cutting attach, nice heavy/solid, well taken care of regulators, welding/cutting tips & welding cart. This entire set is aged, well taken care of, but you can tell it was used on a regular basis, welding orfices are slightly larger than what they should be but besides that no visible problems. Regulators are standard single stage heavy duty units with good size gauges (which are visibly pleasing as well)

I didnt pick these up out of the blue, i looked for a few months at used units online & even seen these for a couple of the months, after having time to compair i seen that these were my best bet (used & well taken care of heavy duty @ a good price, etc)

I added to this a 25 year lease on a pair of industrial size tanks 250cu' & matching acetylene tank

My problem -
I bought extra tips/etc to go with & was excited to get it going, esp seeing that i've been waiting about 4 months+ all the years i havent had one.. When i hooked up i started it up & all seemed ok, got a neutral flame on a welding tip then put on cutting tip.. i went to use the cutting tip (also does with weld/braze/heating/etc) tips... I start to get a problem a few seconds after gas starts flowing good... The regulator fluctuates alot, first sign of this (besides the flame) is the very audible click/noise coming from the oxygen regulator .. Turned off, tryed new tips, tryed everything & i still have a faulty regulator, the gauge fluctuates with each click/noise & a useable flame can not be obtained for any use.. This being said i cant even properly test out my torch or cutting attachments because of the regulator.

My Questions -

This obviously is the regulator, correct?

I would now like a 2 stage working regulator set up, But if i can get this repaired cheap i'll do that.

I would like to rebuild this myself, I would like to ask for a little instruction, advice, & sudjestions from others on this. (obviously i know most will say they wouldn't attempt & would rather pay to have it done) .. The Problem (to me) with this is that i got a rough quote of about $100 per regulator to be rebuilt, if i have to have these professionally done @ a price close to that, i would rather go out and just buy a whole new outfit with my 2-stage regulators.

Also here is my other situation - Yes i have a good welding supply store here that has always seemed to take care of me & others quite well... But! a month ago i decided i would just buy a new unit.. i wanted the best/largest victor set up they had, i ordered the journeyman (i have a question on this outfit & will post in new thread) & it took a month to come in, & also replaced the single stage regs with 2-stage beasts.. when i went to pick up, what was in the discription when ordered, was not what was in my box... This was last saturday, Guy in charge & who took my order/recomended this kit, etc wasnt going to be in untill monday.. (no call today/monday) So here i am again.. Looking to see what my options are.. I would now like to just keep my $700 i was spending on this kit & just fix what i have & buy more pieces to it from others...

What i would like to do is find out from you (the smartest welding group of guys around) what you suspect my problem is, someone must have came across this before over the years. & with all the combined years of knowledge here i would like to find a good rebuild kit that has the parts to fix my problem (if possible) & as stated before, get sudjestions & help with this rebuild.. I understand & am quite knowledgeable about the subject, & have "Book" experience, taking courses to fine tune all my welding capabilitys, i just have never tore one apart before & really dont want to ruin this fine piece of equiptment.

Hope this is enough info to get started, Later i will post my regulators model# # pictures altho i feel this is pretty basic.. But still will do to give more info & have it recorded for others, & so maybe i can get even more precise info..

(off hand, i believe this to be a 400 something model regs) I would like to have both rebuilt while im at it, both read zero when pressure is off, only viewed problem is the gas flow & not being able to regulate it steadly, what would cause this, etc.. THANKS THANKS THANKS - & im going to go post my other question right now about the oxy-ace outfit i was trying to order

[oldtimer]

A single stage Victor regulator is not a complicated piece of machinery. That said, if you don't know anything about them you should have it rebuilt by someone who does. Any part in it is available but if it is fairly old you may have to go to Victor or find someone who specializes in torch and regulator repair to find the parts. Without having it to actually dismantle, I won't make a guess what is wrong.

[Zrexxer]

Despite all the paranoia, Victor gas equipment is simple, durable, and easily rebuilt with inexpensive parts. Spark's torch repair will sell you the parts, or they'll rebuild it for you and will look just like the day it left Victor's factory.

Check out www.victortorch.com. Victor repair kits for 400 series regulators are about $19, while you're there you should also spring for the $15 Victor distributor's CD they sell, which has the Victor service manuals on it.

As far as whether you've got the mechanical aptitude to do this, you're on your own. But like oldtimer said, these are not a complicated piece of machinery, given you observe the proper precautions and procedures.

[Adultoys]

Yes, i have the ability to do it, theres no doubt about that, I just wanted some input on where i can get a rebuild kit, either you guys have heard or delt with a company personally who have good prices & good service. Also wanted to confirm that this requires a rebuild.

So I looked at that site you gave me - sparks - They look pretty good, i'll have to go see what other rebuild kits i can get as well for my torch (315) & cutting attachment..

Thanks for the info, Anyone else have more places to recomend?

[Jake_SS]

It sounds to me that you have a "damper" problem most higher pressure regulators have a dampening device to eliminate the seat from opening and closing too severely when opening cylinder valve. Probably it is not letting the seat open and close to equalize the pressure at whatever you have got it set at. The click sound is probably the seat valve all of a sudden being released. If you do decide to rekit it yourself be extremely careful that you do not get any contamination in the regulator be scrupulously clean!!! Especially oil Even if there is one minute particle in the regulator can be embedded on the seat surface and allow the pressure to "creep" on the outlet side which will inturn take out your gauge. Then you can have "particle impingement" which when you open your cylinder valve especially if your cylinder is at full contents can force a particle to hit the internal of the regulator and cause a spark and ignite!!!! There was a guy in the airforce that ate a cheese sandwich for his lunch and went up in a jet and had his oxygen mask on and there was a sudden excess of pressure and he had a beard and his face caught on fire all because he had some oily subtance from the cheese in his beard. I kid you not
Cheers

[Adultoys]

damper? ... would that be pictured in this diagram http://www.victortorch.com/repair%20kits/sr450.htm ? The rebuild kit comes with all seat assembly parts, I was thinking of also buying a new diaphram while im in there.

& yea im very aware of oils & contaminats.. But Wow, I never heard about that story... a guy with cheese in his beard lol.

[Jake_SS]

damper? ... would that be pictured in this diagram http://www.victortorch.com/repair%20kits/sr450.htm ? The rebuild kit comes with all seat assembly parts, I was thinking of also buying a new diaphram while im in there.

& yea im very aware of oils & contaminats.. But Wow, I never heard about that story... a guy with cheese in his beard lol.

Yep I would replace whole seat kit and diaphragm, should get many years out of it. Do you know how to test it once reassembled?
Cheers

[Adultoys]

To test the regulator when finished, I would say just to test with a leak test/soapy solution.

Correct?

[Jake_SS]

To test the regulator when finished, I would say just to test with a leak test/soapy solution.

Correct?

I would definitely also replace the filter in the spigot and buy a spare as over a period of time will clog up to some degree and reduce your flow rate. As far as testing goes if you are positive that everything is OK with your work, attach the regulator to your cylinder, preferably with a low contents pressure, attach your hose to the outlet and use the valve on your torch to as a way of shutting-opening outlet gas,make sure that the T screw is all the way out ie so that the seat is closed, SLOWLY crack the valve on the cylinder, then close it, just so that you have pressure in the regulator, make sure that the valve on your torch is closed, then watch your outlet gauge, if the needle starts to move then there is gas getting through the closed seat, then you have to check the outlet side, if the seat didnt let gas through then open the cylinder valve and leave open, screw in the T to about 15 psi still watching your gauge, then open your torch valve and make sure that the pressure is 15psi at flow, which is referred to as "dynamic pressure" then close valve and watch the needle it should only rise about 2psi if it keeps rising then seat is faulty, this is called "creep" pressure, once it stops rising this is called "static pressure", then with torch valve off and system pressurized make a note of the pressure in the inlet gauge, and close cylinder valve, watch for any change in both gauges, leave it like that for a good 15 minutes, if inlet gauge starts to drop then you have a leak somewhere. Bucket of water is handy to put your torch in to test for leaks. Good Luck
Cheers

[Adultoys]

I would definitely also replace the filter in the spigot and buy a spare as over a period of time will clog up to some degree and reduce your flow rate. As far as testing goes if you are positive that everything is OK with your work, attach the regulator to your cylinder, preferably with a low contents pressure, attach your hose to the outlet and use the valve on your torch to as a way of shutting-opening outlet gas,make sure that the T screw is all the way out ie so that the seat is closed, SLOWLY crack the valve on the cylinder, then close it, just so that you have pressure in the regulator, make sure that the valve on your torch is closed, then watch your outlet gauge, if the needle starts to move then there is gas getting through the closed seat, then you have to check the outlet side, if the seat didnt let gas through then open the cylinder valve and leave open, screw in the T to about 15 psi still watching your gauge, then open your torch valve and make sure that the pressure is 15psi at flow, which is referred to as "dynamic pressure" then close valve and watch the needle it should only rise about 2psi if it keeps rising then seat is faulty, this is called "creep" pressure, once it stops rising this is called "static pressure", then with torch valve off and system pressurized make a note of the pressure in the inlet gauge, and close cylinder valve, watch for any change in both gauges, leave it like that for a good 15 minutes, if inlet gauge starts to drop then you have a leak somewhere. Bucket of water is handy to put your torch in to test for leaks. Good Luck
Cheers

I dont see the filter listed on Spark's parts page, This is something im able to order thru them tho? So if i get a rebuild kit, diaphram, & filter, I should have pretty much a like new regulator? can those filters just be cleaned? (This is the brass inlet filter your refering to? correct?) seems like it could just be rinsed if so.. Or not.. i dont know - Anyways Thanks Again, trying to get dinner (Venison) cooked up & get this stuff ordered before to late.. SO... off to fire up the grill, i'll check back in a bit..

[greywynd]

This is the brass inlet filter your refering to? correct?) seems like it could just be rinsed if so.. Or not.. i dont know -

Those three words....I don't know......are a huge indicator to me that you should really send it off to be rebuilt. I seem to sense that all through the thread, please do yourself a favour and get it done.

I've been using torches for 25 years, and for the difference in money, I'd still get mine rebuilt.

[Adultoys]

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_vids/Whohah.swf?Vid=pepper_spray_face.flv

Those three words....I don't know......are a huge indicator to me that you should really send it off to be rebuilt. I seem to sense that all through the thread, please do yourself a favour and get it done.

I've been using torches for 25 years, and for the difference in money, I'd still get mine rebuilt.

Ha oh ok, well since you said so.... ... I'm just kidding.. kinda.. I do understand where your coming from & im glad to hear that you wouldnt take the chance & no one should unless they felt 110% confident..

I believe that I said something in my initial post about being aware of the fact that there are going to be allot of people who feel the same way as you do. But the important thing is how I feel about that subject, not how you do.

Don’t get me wrong, I do appreciate your time you took to reply, You obviously just took what I said the wrong way. I was asking about what Jake said about the filter... Now if I had said "So wouldn’t I just be able to soak/wash the filter out with gasoline to get any debris out, I DONT KNOW" ... Then your comment/opinion may have been acceptable...

--- Speaking of washing with solvents... Denatured Alcohol, acetone, wax & grease remover.. There is no reason that any of these couldn’t be used on any parts of an oxygen set up is there? - Not that I need to use them or clean anything, just curious, maybe I’ll need to wipe grease off my torches/regulators, or maybe when I rebuild the regulators I’ll want to clean them up.....

Also, in My opinion I wouldn’t recommend mineral spirits or lacquer cleaner, I believe both have some degree of petroleum base in them. This I can’t confirm, it’s just my own assumption from using all types of solvents on a regular basis... Is this correct? Either way I believe this to be an important piece of information to anyone owning any oxygen equipment...

BTW.. For those of you who want to tell me that I shouldn’t do a reg rebuild myself, I totally understand your concern.. & trust me, I do know that there are millions of STUPID people out there, & thank god for the internet for bringing more of them to my door step, if only to watch them do something stupid & hurt them self as a warning to all the other stupid people... Although most tend to see someone do something dangerous/stupid.. then they will want to go do it better... i.e. Prove that they have less intelligence, normally for attention..

Like this guy for example. & YES WATCH IT, IT IS GREAT!!

http://www.dailyhaha.com/_vids/Whohah.swf?Vid=pepper_spray_face.flv

But unfortunately for the internet I’m one the individuals who is well informed & don’t do anything without being 100% positive of the results.. I’m always learning & doing research, I've been in college for years & don’t see myself finishing any time soon, I don’t watch TV but in my spare/free time I’m reading or researching... I’m a perfectionist whose a risk taker but one who will only take an informed risk, not an idiot who doesn’t care & does stuff without thinking, esp. if its dealing with something just as deadly as a bomb. ( and in this case, an uninformed mistake could turn an oxy/ace unit into a quite large one & is normally the only piece of equipment in a shop that if used improperly could be deadly to yourself & others.

All I'm asking for at this point in time is input, where, how, suppliers, good service, etc... & I thank you for everything once again.. Tons of wonderful knowledge here & hopefully I’ll be able to be a part of it..

I plan on taking pictures of my progress with the rebuild after I get all parts ordered. Or maybe I’ll even take a video, that way when something goes wrong it can be uploaded for everyone’s amusement

Paul - Flint, MI
ASE & State certified Master Tech
Automotive Body, Paint, Restoration
Custom, Classic, OEM

Have worked in the field for some time (personally & professionally) I have in the past &/or currently am, working on courses & degrees, in Automotive Paint, Body, & collision. Auto Mechanics, Welding, Engineering, & also have a degree in the medical field.

[Roger]

Inlet filter is a sintered metal filter. Cheap so just replace.

Any solvent used to clean parts for O2 clean service should be approved for that use with approved procedure. Solvent should evaporate leaving no flammable residue. Detergent should rinse off leaving no residue. Different cleaning agents might be used for metal parts and O-rings.

Without test equipment you could be using correct but hydrocarbon contaminated solvent or detergent and end up with hydrocarbons on regulator parts.

In real world use I have seen little done to prevent contaminated O2 connections other than hope the welder would recognize and not use dirty/oily fittings.

[oldtimer]

In your first post you were asking for a little instruction, advice, and suggestions from others which you got. Now you are defending your abilities and saying you only wanted to know where to get parts.

Go to your local LWS. they will take care of you.

[Adultoys]

Ok if that’s all thats here to be offered that’s fine oldtimer, although I’ll still keep an eye on this thread for any other replies for information purposes. & Sry I didn’t come here to be told to go have someone else do it or to go to my local supplier! So yea I felt a little more explaining was needed for the few people who would have a hard time grasping the concept that...

Anyways Thanks a ton Zrexxer, Jake_SS, & Roger for your respectable responses... I believe I’m going to post another post which is more specific to "contact info" in so many words.. I would like info on who, where, etc... you guys have used for anything to do with welding, whether it be a seller on eBay, a web site, local shop, etc... just to add to my contact list.. but as I said I’ll post a new Thread on this in a few mins so u can reply there...

& once again thanks oldtimer for your added comment After I tried to Explain more because of greywynd's comment. & yes there is a good friendly shop here, But I’ve noticed once I started looking around online for welding supplies that even with my commercial discount, I’ll still spend 20-40% more for particular items (one's that I compared the prices elsewhere) .. & I don’t normally have to have them order something in, but when I did this last time it took a month to get my item in... Which I’m sure you guys can understand, being a welder & needing something & if you had to wait a Month for it... So yea, for items that I need today, & for most things I’ll still use my local supplier, But for the rest I'd like to find someone with better prices & quicker delivery times.

(I can’t blame my supplier for the long delivery time seeing that I know they had to wait on it from victor... But still.. I shouldn’t have to have such a long wait)

- Adultoys