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  • Considering hobart 210 mvp. Have a question

    Was looking at getting one. Can I run it in a 220 volt outlet with a 30amp breaker? I can't seem to find maximum draw

    Thanks

  • #2
    They sort of cheat on specifications .. They state 24 amps at 150A and 30% duty cycle.... You might get away with 30 amp for all out but duty cycle is short and you are probably be at max limit of breaker...

    Dale
    "Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson..

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    • #3
      At full (not rated) output, the duty cycle of the welder is probably smaller than the duty cycle of the circuit breaker. You'll probably be fine. But there are details missing in your question. Why are you asking about a 30A breaker? Is it because you are trying to power the welder with a repurposed dryer or other existing circuit? If so, being a normal circuit, it probably has #10 copper on that 30A breaker. If being repurposed ONLY for a welding machine (with this kind of duty cycle), the #10 copper can actually be used safely (and to Code) on a 50A breaker.

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      • #4
        Don't ever tell anyone to attach a 50 amp circuit breaker to a #10 gauge wire .A #10 gauge wire is only rated for 30 amps You need a #8 gauge wire for 50 amps Look it up in the National Electrical Code .There is nothing in the electrical Code that gives special treatment to something being repurposed .In fact their is nothing in the Electrical Code even using the word repurposed Rightfully most probably this welder will not cause the 30 amp circuit breaker to trip If it does then either rewire for 50 amps or just do not weld that long at one shot The welder will run cooler and probably not trip the circuit breaker

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        • #5
          Read Article 630 of the National Electric Code before telling a master electrician he's wrong in your first post with no introduction whatsoever.

          For the record, sometimes a #10 wire is only rated for 20 amps. Sometimes it's 60 amps. And that's assuming copper, of course. If your post says "never ever," it's probably wrong.

          Welcome to the forum. Maybe tell us a bit about yourself and earn a reputation.
          Last edited by MAC702; 01-12-2021, 01:30 PM.

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          • #6
            A 10/30 is tailor made for it. A 14/30 is legal if it's single circuit in pipe. With the MVP adapter it's legal on a 50A circuit provided the wire is 12 (single circuit in pipe) or 10 cable or better. Only machines that come cord and plug that need a wire heavier than 10 are 251+ wire feeds with hi duty. Running small wire and C25 it's even fine for them if they are not on assembly line piece work.
            The manuals can be slightly confusing. The max breaker applies to the minimum wire.
            http://www.facebook.com/cary.urka.urkafarms

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            • #7
              Mac, I just jam myself up explaining why it's safe and how it's not a danger to the world. Someone figured it all out ahead of us with the what if. It involves some real calculations that been in the code a long time and masters havr been installing legal welding circuits for decades on 10 cable
              My neighbor is also a lic master with every paper they invent, can have any wire or pipe for free and has had the same 10 cable on his garage wall for his welder for North of 35 yrs.
              something else to consider nominal is now 10% higher than when they write it for the same machines, some allow the same wire at 200V ha.
              a true 50A is not sposed to be plugged to a welder outlet, sposed to go to a range and a weld load above the breaker in the time frame will even trip up a 50 with 12 on thermal.
              hard concept to grasp that breakers rarely trip on thermal except for lots of heaters on 120.
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              • #8
                Remember Hank, after a couple martoonies he finally tell someone just wore it like I say, you can understand it later.
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                • #9
                  Can put 10 in a pipe on 60. 12 on 50 and 14 on 30. The exception is limited. The sizes are sufficient for short circuit interruption. They are limited to a welder recepts or hard wired equipment. All the other recepts have to follow the other rules.
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                  • #10
                    If someone were to plug a buzzer in to a 14 wire 30 it would trip in short order before it burn the wire.
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                    • #11
                      Others run heavy wire for the "heaviest" machine they got and use same circuit for 50A plug machines with the thinking that the breaker only is there to protect the circuit wire, got a 210 on 80A circuit.
                      . Hard concept the dealer isn't there for most thermal but as limit for fault protection insured by a recepts designed for that circuit.
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                      • #12
                        Internal fault of the tool up to a point depends on the correct breaker all sized for it. It's why they warn about wiring around mpg plug. It allows the machine with 14 wire to connect to 50. I would say if the plug were modified would be limited to 30A breaker.
                        Last edited by Sberry; 01-11-2021, 08:27 PM.
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                        • #13
                          I do not dispute that the duty cycle of the welder will protect the wire leading to it. My concern with Article 630 is that an individual will wire an outlet to conform to it (Article 630) in their house and then not sign the outlet WELDER ONLY and also not write a note and stick it on their electrical panel explaining what they have done. That individual then moves. The next person living in that house figures that they have a true 50 amp circuit with a sufficiently large wire running between their 50 amp outlet and their 50 amp circuit breaker. Depending upon what the new homeowner plugs into that outlet, this could be a problem. A BIG problem. I'm guessing now, but I'd be willing to bet that the authors of Article 630 were assuming that the welder would be a BIG unit in a commercial situation and would be hard wired. This is just my being cautious, but I do not like to see outlets wired to the Article 630 specification in a personal home. I don't want to see someone accidentally burn their house down. I have read Sberry's posts previously that any installation must be able to pass Code or a forensic examination. We are giving advice for wiring a personal home that could cause a fire and that would not pass forensic examination. If that were the case, the homeowner's insurance would not cover. This would be Very VERY bad for the poor guy who did nothing wrong and was just on the receiving end of someone else having and using detailed, specialized knowledge yet not sharing that information down the line. ~0le
                          Last edited by ~0le; 01-13-2021, 02:44 AM.
                          "If a problem can't be solved, enlarge it." (The 34th president of the United States)

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                          • #14
                            They thought of this, I eluded to why it's not a concern. They didn't require a sign on it and they didn't assume anything. People reading it assume. After the internet came about we got everyone read it second guessing and thete was even a proposal I believe about changing it for residential but there wasn't the forensic evidence for this being a problem. Other stuff was. The equipment people build a lot of stuff in
                            You not the first one to say this but if it was a problem the code people, the electricians, the insurance industry, the engineers would have been on it if it actually burned houses down. I was at a big fire convention. Must have been 75 or 100 fire investigators, I ask a couple question about equipment wiring. Not 1 case any one know involve the special equipment circuits. I been at this a while, never seen one, never heard of it, can't even recall an internet case of it but every time this comes up about the second post there is someone is absolutely sure it's going to happen
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                            • #15
                              This is natural I did it. Try to prove why they were wrong instead of trying to understand why it's ok. the allowances for welders magnify so many of the fundamentals of circuit design and over current protection that this is worth the study, so much of it found in all common circuits but the user doesn't think about it. The user can plug a 3 way in to a 16 cord on a 20A and a good share of end user consumer power in the world is delivered via 16 from 20A.
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