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Tapped setting for 3/16th onto 16g

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  • Tapped setting for 3/16th onto 16g

    Hi all,

    I have a question because the mvp210 I have is a tapped machine.

    on a jeep application there are weld on 3/16th metal plates that get welded to the 16g unibody. This is no easy task especially for a newb. I need to make sure heat is being moved around well, as to not make brittle spots on the frame.

    I'm inclined to ask how you think it's best to set the machine up, for this difference in material.
    should I set it up for the thinner material And try to concentrate heat on thicker, or set it up to a setting for the thicker metal and move quickly?

    I've got some scrap 16g to play with. I need to get some 3/16. This isn't something to go into blindly, welding out of position sideways/maybe upside down.

    on an infinite voltage machine I assume you would just blend power and wire to fit ones needs. With the 210 I don't want to just go blowing holes in the frame.


    Thank you for any of your better advice.
    Last edited by HOBARTxj; 03-16-2019, 05:06 PM.

  • #2
    I have a Hobart Handler 190 and it will readily burn right through 16 gauge steel. The 3/16" will take more heat. Are these structural. load bearing welds you're making?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by HOBARTxj View Post
      Hi all,

      I have a question because the mvp210 I have is a tapped machine.

      on a jeep application there are weld on 3/16th metal plates that get welded to the 16g unibody. This is no easy task especially for a newb. I need to make sure heat is being moved around well, as to not make brittle spots on the frame.

      I'm inclined to ask how you think it's best to set the machine up, for this difference in material.
      should I set it up for the thinner material And try to concentrate heat on thicker, or set it up to a setting for the thicker metal and move quickly?

      I've got some scrap 16g to play with. I need to get some 3/16. This isn't something to go into blindly, welding out of position sideways/maybe upside down.

      on an infinite voltage machine I assume you would just blend power and wire to fit ones needs. With the 210 I don't want to just go blowing holes in the frame.


      Thank you for any of your better advice.
      Is your unibody HS heat treated steel? If so, perhaps you should not be welding on it at all, unless you are talking about a pre-1975 jeep.

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe it may be heat treated. These unibody stiffeners are made to stitch and rosette weld onto the frame rails for reinforcement. This is not welded on all length of the stiffener.

        this is the most info I've found thus far, but as for setting up my machine I'm not sure where it should be. 3/30 has been the hottest 16G is liking, but yes it's very easy to burn through the sheet metal.

        What do the wise suggest if you had to weld this?
        Last edited by HOBARTxj; 03-19-2019, 02:21 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Personal when welding thin to thick I tend to keep major heat on thick material and wash over to thin just long enough to get a bond on thin material.... Sort of like a 3 count process.... 1-2 on thick and 3 over to thin and back and repeat over and over and over....

          My concern like some others is what is heat threat of body materials as they use heat treat methods to gain strength while reducing bulk of materials...

          Might be better understanding of process you are attempting if you explained it a little better or supplied pictures....

          Dale



          Lives his life vicariously through his own self.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HOBARTxj View Post
            I believe it may be heat treated. These unibody stiffeners are made to stitch and rosette weld onto the frame rails for reinforcement. This is not welded on all length of the stiffener.

            this is the most info I've found thus far, but as for setting up my machine I'm not sure where it should be. 3/30 has been the hottest 16G is liking, but yes it's very easy to burn through the sheet metal.

            What do the wise suggest if you had to weld this?
            If it is a hear-treated HS steel unibody, I would not weld on it at all. The reason is that welding destroys the heat treating, creating stress risers, that may eventually lead to fatigue cracks and failure. I know it is done all the time by off roaders, hitch-sellers, muffler shops, etc, but They all know that any failure will not be covered in the fine print on the back of the bill or until after they sell, You can't restore heat tratment, since the whole frame was done after welding.

            Do a search on your setting problem, and you will discover that it's more technique than setting,. One way that works is to preheat the thicker and use the thinner setting.

            I would use small HS bolts or Rivets to do a higher quality job.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dale M. View Post
              Personal when welding thin to thick I tend to keep major heat on thick material and wash over to thin just long enough to get a bond on thin material.... Sort of like a 3 count process.... 1-2 on thick and 3 over to thin and back and repeat over and over and over....

              My concern like some others is what is heat threat of body materials as they use heat treat methods to gain strength while reducing bulk of materials...

              Might be better understanding of process you are attempting if you explained it a little better or supplied pictures....

              Dale


              Dale these are some photos of a few different companies frame stiffeners, but the concept of welding them on is captured fairly similarly between all of them.

              northweldor,
              you have good thoughts on alternative options, but the reason for this frame stiffener is the same reason it has to be a weld on option.. with larger tires, weight flexing these "unibody" jeeps,they in time pull themselves apart. It is this flexing that will shear bolts, rivets, and wallow out attachment points. It could also be said that for as many holes/ rivets that it would take to secure said frame stiffener, that it could effectively defeat the purpose of reinforcing the vehicle because of drilling away material.
              Ideally reinforcement is transfer load and making the suspension more effectively be the flexing point, not the body.

              it's controversial for sure, but it's the best solution for prolonging vehicle life for one that is used for 4x4.

              I highly respect your knowledge here guys. I know metalurgicaly this isn't best practice if the frame is tempered, but for those of you that had to do this, Im listen intently on how you would proceed.

              thus far the procedure is:
              prep frame

              tac stiffeners in place after clamping and pushing into position with a Jack

              stitch weld 1-2" areas alternating sides to disperse heat, allowing time to cool.

              the rosette areas seen like they would be tricky because of the amount of fill needed, perhaps tacking the border, later returning to fill?
              Attached Files
              Last edited by HOBARTxj; 03-20-2019, 05:42 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HOBARTxj View Post

                Dale these are some photos of a few different companies frame stiffeners, but the concept of welding them on is captured fairly similarly between all of them.

                northweldor,
                you have good thoughts on alternative options, but the reason for this frame stiffener is the same reason it has to be a weld on option.. with larger tires, weight flexing these "unibody" jeeps,they in time pull themselves apart. It is this flexing that will shear bolts, rivets, and wallow out attachment points. It could also be said that for as many holes/ rivets that it would take to secure said frame stiffener, that it could effectively defeat the purpose of reinforcing the vehicle because of drilling away material.
                Ideally reinforcement is transfer load and making the suspension more effectively be the flexing point, not the body.

                it's controversial for sure, but it's the best solution for prolonging vehicle life for one that is used for 4x4.

                I highly respect your knowledge here guys. I know metalurgicaly this isn't best practice if the frame is tempered, but for those of you that had to do this, Im listen intently on how you would proceed.

                thus far the procedure is:
                prep frame

                tac stiffeners in place after clamping and pushing into position with a Jack

                stitch weld 1-2" areas alternating sides to disperse heat, allowing time to cool.

                the rosette areas seen like they would be tricky because of the amount of fill needed, perhaps tacking the border, later returning to fill?
                So, what you are doing is applying reinforcing panels to an already damaged frame, rather than attaching skid plates, etc.. Since if I was doing this job, the warranty would expire just beyond the shop door, I will let some of the more experienced guys in auto repair and restoration take over! However, each of those plug welds will be a stress point, Definitely limit your heating as much as you can, and don't over do the stitch welds! Good luck!
                Edit:
                Here's what you realy need to do your job ,,,, Only about 6 or 7K dolars!

                https://www.fronius.com/en/welding-t...-processes/cmt
                Last edited by Northweldor; 03-20-2019, 01:20 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Haha nice tool$$$$$$$

                  However no this not applying these to a damaged vehicle, they are a mitigation upgrade. The idea is to reduce stress on the vehicle and Redirect it better to the suspension.

                  Last edited by HOBARTxj; 04-19-2019, 08:34 AM.

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