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  • Nipper
    started a topic Is a spool gun mandatory?

    Is a spool gun mandatory?

    Just curious. Do I have to have a spool gun to weld aluminum with a 210 MVP?

  • Nipper
    replied
    Hmmmmm...

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  • Northweldor
    replied
    Originally posted by MAC702 View Post
    I have sprayed with my HH210. Not aluminum, but it looks like the thread has moved beyond that. It was during the first year I owned it and was purposely doing some testing with it. I used a C3 shielding gas, and .023" solid steel wire. C3 is 97% argon, 3% CO2
    I have always assumed that the H210 had the voltage to spray arc both steel and aluminum at least in the smaller wire gages, using a spool gun and and argon, but now I'm not so sure. I took a look at the volt/amp curve charts of the H190 , H210, and Ironman 230. , to see what the voltage would be for .030 aluminum at 90 amps (minimum amperage for spray in the ESAB chart I listed earlier).

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    As you can see, on the 190 at 90 Amps with argon, the voltage is at about 23 or 24, which is barely enough to transition into spray, and might still stay in globular without another mix of gas.


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    On the H210 the situation is slightly better, since at 90 amps ,you have about 26 volts, which should get you out of globular transfer, with a little to spare, but still
    may not be enough to spray with . 045 wire.




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    On the Ironman, you still have enough voltage to maintain spray aluminum right up to up to the amperage required for all wire sizes it will feed.

    So, back to the original question, I think a spool gun is mandatory for aluminum with the 210, because you need every advantage you can get to get quality welds with the low voltage you have.

    I checked with a friend who does marine aluminum, and he says he uses MAC 702's choice of gas but, for the hobbyist or the pro who switches back and forth,
    92/8 will work well with short circuit steel or spray aluminum. Also, to repair really thin material, he simply adds thickness where needed, backing bars, patches, etc

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  • Nipper
    replied
    Its good to know, but..... I don't think I will be buying special gas to try it. I'll let Ranger go first. : D

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  • MAC702
    replied
    Originally posted by Nipper View Post
    ... I wouldn't know I was spraying even if I was....
    If you can't tell, you ain't. Trust me, you'll know.

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  • oldguyfrom56
    replied
    Yup, shows the difference. I would suggest that in the video you posted, the voltage was a bit high. Notice how large the droplet was getting? Can you picture how positive and negative electrons might be effecting things and magnetic fields might function for cause and effect?
    As you mention, once was blind but now you see.
    Good! Your welcome. Worth the effort.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nipper
    replied
    Originally posted by oldguyfrom56 View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTFhh8dAK10

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=LMnRRx1popU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvDrlyl9xlo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNaAAMtTh1g

    Just remember the learning is out there, but you do have to want it. Knowing why and understanding it, not for everyone. Doing works and is the future. Called task specific training.
    But it sure looks cool in slow motion.
    GOOD JOB Oldguy!!!

    I just watched the slo mo videos. I thought that's what was going on when I was welding, so then I looked up one that shows "regular" welding in slo mo ~~> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRIGks3gxG0

    I see now! : )

    Thank you Sir!

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  • Rangerhgm
    replied
    Originally posted by Nipper View Post

    I'm with you Ranger. I'll wait till Hobart adds a button!

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    LOL.....I like your puc

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  • oldguyfrom56
    replied
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTFhh8dAK10

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=LMnRRx1popU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvDrlyl9xlo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNaAAMtTh1g

    Just remember the learning is out there, but you do have to want it. Knowing why and understanding it, not for everyone. Doing works and is the future. Called task specific training.
    But it sure looks cool in slow motion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nipper
    replied
    Originally posted by Rangerhgm View Post
    Nipper.....I'm kinda like you.....I switch on my 210, make some adjustments, and start welding.....it sounds like bacon and melts things together and all is good......then I move on to the next project......I have no idea what process was used.....spray, glob, short circuit or whatever.....I'm good as long as it works.....sometimes being ignorant is a blessing.....lol
    I'm with you Ranger. I'll wait till Hobart adds a button!

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  • oldguyfrom56
    replied
    Well Nipper, what you have to do is compare, generalize, and accept the differences for the titles bestowed upon them. The spray comes from the sound. An engine idling might sound lumpy (Short circuit transfer) but as it picks up revs smoothens out. Rev it fast enough... In this case droplets are melting so fast and rapidly, they are smaller then the size of the wire as well doing so with such speed as to appear in a stream giving the hiss of smoother higher rev. They are said to be spraying across the arc.

    Besides that, the term is used in description of other processes. Some SMAW electrode are said to spray. FCAW wires types, same thing. GMAW solid wires and you with solid GMAW of aluminum, same thing. And it's complicated.

    On the bright side, when you figure it out it, you'll know.
    My last description...Looks like a cats urine stream in the middle of brightness, sounds about the same as well if you ever seen a cat pee? Like Spiderman shooting a web. Phisssst.

    Good luck with that.

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  • Rangerhgm
    replied
    Nipper.....I'm kinda like you.....I switch on my 210, make some adjustments, and start welding.....it sounds like bacon and melts things together and all is good......then I move on to the next project......I have no idea what process was used.....spray, glob, short circuit or whatever.....I'm good as long as it works.....sometimes being ignorant is a blessing.....lol

    Leave a comment:


  • Nipper
    replied
    Oldguy, your $5.00 is safe. I wouldn't know I was spraying even if I was. I watched half the videos on Youtube last weekend and I still don't see the difference or have any idea why I would want to. I really like my 210 so I don't want to overload it. I will leave it at that for a while. : )

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  • oldguyfrom56
    replied
    Originally posted by Nipper View Post

    From your link made by Miller....
    "With such force they overcome gravity".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHkbh0oKv_g
    40 seconds in. Ok...simple and understandable. Ever see a drop hanging. It holds it's self in suspension, until it can over come the force holding it by weight/volume, or greater force, a shake or in our discussion voltage force and magnetic force squeeze.

    You know...some say I don't know what I'm talking about either?

    "I am getting to deep in this and I still have NO IDEA
    (I mean NONE)
    of what I am talking about." ( sorry about the quote Dale)

    You want to swim with the big fishes you have to venture further away from shore. How much you know about treading water or swimming strokes decides how deep the water or far from the boat you go?

    Now Nipper, you take the kid fishing to the local pond to do some reel casting you could pull out dinner. You beef up the rod and reel and go off shore, you stock a freezer.

    Now...I posted some of the science stuff. I know...boring. Not as flashy, kind of dry. However...I also followed the link you posted and read the replies. Quickly. I think it was Rocky who posted some pictures of a weldment done with a "spray transfer".
    I can run, but don't ask me to run very far. If you asked if your 210 was going to do that all day on heavy plate I'd have said no. But it will do it. Because while it allows you to do so, it's limited by duty cycle at that rating to sustain it.

    If I have the rest of my life and a good shovel, I could dig up 40 acres. A tractor and plow, going to be quicker. Maybe that is a better question, how much field do you plan on turning over?

    How about this... if your not shorting out, spitting droplets larger then the wire diameter, your probably getting close enough to say it's spraying.

    https://www.thefabricator.com/articl...modes-for-gmaw

    If nothing else it has you thinking and what harm can come from that? My $5.00 still stands. I say you can.

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  • MAC702
    replied
    I have sprayed with my HH210. Not aluminum, but it looks like the thread has moved beyond that. It was during the first year I owned it and was purposely doing some testing with it. I used a C3 shielding gas, and .023" solid steel wire. C3 is 97% argon, 3% CO2

    Leave a comment:

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