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  • Nipper
    replied
    Originally posted by oldguyfrom56 View Post
    This droplets defying gravity"...Hmm? You pin point where you heard it or read it so I can review it to make an informed comment in reply, let me know. If I had to guess, voltage forces and electron travel. Not unlike a tornado sucking up a fridge and depositing it a mile away.
    From your link made by Miller....
    "With such force they overcome gravity".
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHkbh0oKv_g

    Leave a comment:


  • Dale M.
    replied
    Well.....

    https://www.esabna.com/euweb/mig_handbook/592mig1_6.htm

    https://www.esabna.com/euweb/mig_handbook/592mig1_7.htm

    Think of spray as in "rattle can" painting and globular as pouring paint from can...

    Dale

    Leave a comment:


  • oldguyfrom56
    replied
    Ever milk a cow? Grab a teat for a little squeeze and pull action? About the same thing happens....only faster. Instead of a hand it magnetism doing the squeeze.
    I know...they don't seem to mention that do they? Well, it's complicated. What complicates it more is the mention of shielding gas, filler metal type, and those details of voltage, WFS, wire size, stick out and arc length.

    One thing is certain, if I produced a video, it would go a little further to explain it. Them maybe a guy might actually learn something from them as far as understanding it goes?

    This "
    droplets defying gravity"...Hmm? You pin point where you heard it or read it so I can review it to make an informed comment in reply, let me know. If I had to guess, voltage forces and electron travel. Not unlike a tornado sucking up a fridge and depositing it a mile away.

    "One article I read said a 210 does not have enough power to do a spray transfer".
    I say it does...I say the guy who said that is a dolt? And $5.00 that say's I'm right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nipper
    replied
    Thanks Oldguyfrom56,

    I watched all three videos and did a little reading on some other sites. I'm still not sure what's different. It looks like they are just holding the gun a little farther away?? One article I read said a 210 does not have enough power to do a spray transfer.
    In one video it says something about the droplets defying gravity? How so? They look like they are going DOWN to the metal to me.
    Apparently I am not qualified. : )
    Last edited by Nipper; 03-10-2019, 02:02 PM.

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  • oldguyfrom56
    replied
    Originally posted by Nipper View Post
    Grief....... Now I have to find out what a "spray transfer" is.

    If it isn't slapped on, thrown on or spread with a knife, chances are it's been transferred by a spray, maybe?

    And what some call spray, others might call a spit?

    Now...the question remains, is it, what is a spray type transfer or a "axial" spray transfer you wonder about? Here's a few video's to help you decide? And some reading.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvDrlyl9xlo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHkbh0oKv_g

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AT4cEHtMn8

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/spray-transfer

    https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Criterion-for-electrode-extension-measurement-as-a-function-of-the-transfer-mode-where_fig1_233598224

    What's a "spray transfer"... a term to describe small fast droplet deposition. What causes a spray transfer, that's a bit more complicated.

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  • Nipper
    replied
    Grief....... Now I have to find out what a "spray transfer" is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Badbmwbrad
    replied
    If the aluminum patch is applied to the hull's outer surface, then water pressure (differential pressure) tends to force patch tight against hull and sealant; reducing leakage potential.

    Leave a comment:


  • ~0le
    replied
    I'm with Dale on this one, Nipper. Please note: We are not bad mouthing the welding of aluminum . . . just talking about getting the repair done and the boat back in the water. Pop rivets and sheet aluminum. "Glue" the aluminum sheet on with a thin coat of sealant then pop rivet it on. Finally, more sealant on the pop rivet heads I have used rental canoes with just such patches. Of course, if the place needing repair is on a sharp bend or a compound curve, it will be much more difficult. By the way, MIGing spray transfer is good down to only about 1/8" on aluminum and even then requires a modicum of skill on the part of the operator. As Northweldor said, pulse is the hot set up for the thin stuff. ~0le

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  • Dale M.
    replied
    Originally posted by Northweldor View Post

    Using a spoolgun and 220 v, I see no reason why a 210 will not maintain spray transfer, and successfully do thin aluminum repairs, It will probably be working on a very low duty cycle though, as Ole said.

    What is that guy doing in the Hobart picture, that he couldn't do better by turning the canoe over???
    It was partly a joke, but spending a couple of hundred dollars for spool gun that will probably be uses only once after hours of learning cure and holes blown in work, $20 worth of rivets and sheet aluminum and sealer seems a lot more practical....

    Dale

    Leave a comment:


  • MAC702
    replied
    Originally posted by Northweldor View Post
    ...What is that guy doing in the Hobart picture, that he couldn't do better by turning the canoe over???
    Then it would be easier to tell he wasn't doing anything except posing for an advertisement.

    Plus, it put the grinder at a more comfortable height.

    Leave a comment:


  • Northweldor
    replied
    Originally posted by Dale M. View Post
    Probably best repair for something like ripped/cracked aluminum boat skin is going to be "Flex Seal" tape... If gap is to big try a repair patch of aluminum sheet and rivets....

    Dale
    Using a spoolgun and 220 v, I see no reason why a 210 will not maintain spray transfer, and successfully do thin aluminum repairs, It will probably be working on a very low duty cycle though, as Ole said.
    Edit: I think i was wrong, and now see a reason. Check post #40.

    What is that guy doing in the Hobart picture, that he couldn't do better by turning the canoe over???
    Last edited by Northweldor; 03-14-2019, 03:03 PM.

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  • Dale M.
    replied
    Probably best repair for something like ripped/cracked aluminum boat skin is going to be "Flex Seal" tape... If gap is to big try a repair patch of aluminum sheet and rivets....

    Dale

    Leave a comment:


  • Northweldor
    replied
    Originally posted by Nipper View Post
    Not doubtful..... And I appreciate the input, but I am not a professional weldor or have any intention of doing a full range of aluminum welding.

    What I was thinking about was using my 210 to repair a tear (hit a rock or something) in a small aluminum boat. I can get a good deal on it. Last summer I could have picked up a pontoon boat that had a damaged aluminum pontoon (had a hole in it) pretty reasonable.

    Hobart has a ad showing some guy using a 210 and he's working on an aluminum canoe. I have no idea what he's supposed to be doing but from what you guys are saying it seems the 210 is not particularly suited to do this kind of work.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	hobart-500553-handler-210-mvp-1.jpg Views:	7 Size:	46.2 KB ID:	703975
    Not at all, and no one said this! And, it would have reallly helped to have this information in your first post!

    If this really is a collision gouge, your welder can easily make the repair, but the reason all these bargain deals are available in marine equipment is that the seller has already taken it to a reputable aluminum weldor, and been told that this is the first of many fatigue cracks, and essentially, the hull is aluminum scrap. Often, boats in this condition are given away for the price of the trailer they are on.

    Ask the pontoon boat seller why he is selling with a hole, rather than repairing.
    Last edited by Northweldor; 03-08-2019, 08:30 PM.

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  • Nipper
    replied
    Not doubtful..... And I appreciate the input, but I am not a professional weldor or have any intention of doing a full range of aluminum welding.

    What I was thinking about was using my 210 to repair a tear (hit a rock or something) in a small aluminum boat. I can get a good deal on it. Last summer I could have picked up a pontoon boat that had a damaged aluminum pontoon (had a hole in it) pretty reasonable.

    Hobart has a ad showing some guy using a 210 and he's working on an aluminum canoe. I have no idea what he's supposed to be doing but from what you guys are saying it seems the 210 is not particularly suited to do this kind of work.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	hobart-500553-handler-210-mvp-1.jpg
Views:	166
Size:	46.2 KB
ID:	703975
    Last edited by Nipper; 03-08-2019, 04:30 PM.

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  • Northweldor
    replied
    "Thanks ~Ole...... I think. : )"

    Nipper, you sound a little doubtful , but Ole's post is excellent, and even a little on the conservative side, since to do a full range of aluminum welding, you would probably need pulse capability too, which brings you up to machines in the $5000 class , like the Miller 3500-P, for power alone!

    There is another cheaper alternative for anyone with a spool-gun capable machine, or, an OA torch, that will produce stronger results than any short-circuit aluminum patch jobs, and is seldom mentioned, but can be ideal for occasional repair. Aluminum Brazing.

    Leave a comment:

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