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  • Hobart Handler 190 Spray Transfer?

    Can the Hobart Hadler 190 achieve Spray Transfer?

    If this machine can achieve this welding process, what dia solid core wire, shielding gas or gas mix, voltage tap and wire feed settings are necessary. I’ve been taught that spray transfer is disirable on >1/4” mild steel plate because of its deep penetration with smooth and realitively spatter-less weld beads. My old Welding handbook from Ivy Tech Weld School states that Spray Transfer occurs at at 150 amps with DCRP with .030 wire and 175A for .035. This book also states that Spray Transfer can be achieved with up to approx 25% CO2. So it would appear that using 75/25 gas might or might not be able to be achieve the Spray Transfer weld process with my Hobart Handler 190 with even .030 solid wire? It would appear that a 90/10 gas mix woud allow this process to be achieved without question using this blend “if my research is accurate?”

    I’m brand new to this forum so forgive me if my post questions have already been answered. I’m unsure of how to search via keywords on this forum.
    Last edited by Repairtech4u; 03-05-2018, 04:09 PM.

  • #2
    Below is an Esab table for minimum amperage with various wire sizes and gases. Note that C25 is not listed. This is because you will likely only get a fine globular transfer with C25, not a true spray. For good spray transfer on critical work, you need the right gas. Also, with your machine, you will be pretty well limited to .030 wire, since you may have duty cycle issues with .035.

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    • #3
      I achieved spray transfer with my HH210. It was with .024" wire and C3 gas. It barely pulled it off. It should be noted that the machine is not advertised to do it, so this is in no way a criticism, just an experimentation.

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      • #4
        Also in my reading I seem to have understanding it requires higher voltages at the arc to achieve spray than our machines are capable of....

        Dale
        Last edited by Dale M.; 03-06-2018, 09:45 PM.
        Lives his life vicariously through his own self.

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        • #5
          Dale, you are correct.

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          • #6
            No the Handler 190 isn't capable of producing spray transfer. The reason being because it can't out put the necessary voltage needed. The unit was designed around running solid wire with C25 shielding gas in short circuit transfer mode. And performance wise it does this quite well.

            The only current Hobart unit that is capable of producing spray transfer with an .030 or 035 solid wire is the Ironman 230. I currently run 90/10 CO2 on my Ironman 230 for spray. I've also used 98/2oxy in the past when I field test the 230.
            MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
            Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


            PM 180C



            HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

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            • #7
              Thanks everyone for your interest in responding to my post

              I kind of figured it was “Kind of a Pipe Dream” to be able to achieve Spray Metal Transfer Mode, however I’m sure the machine will work perfectly fine for all my home shop applications.

              It makes sense that Spray Transfer would require more voltage than this machine can deliver at Sray
              amperages. Being that voltage can be equated similarly with pressure in water it would make sense that to Spray you need adequate pressure “or voltage.”

              I saw a Voltage v.s. Current slop chart for the Handler and noticed that the voltage slope drops as current is increased. If I remember correctly the voltage was pulled down to about 12Vdc or less at min Spray Transfer transistion point with proper type gas assumed.

              I was however previously under the impression that this machine runs in Constantly Voltage Mode keeping the Voltage regulated and Amperage (heat) primarily governed by wire feed rate and wire stickout while welding. I might have misread or misunderstood the Handler 190’s electrical output type operation.

              I cant wait to get my machine operating, I need to get 240 ran out to my garage and a bottle of gas first. It's been many moons ago since my schooling with certification on plate steel, and production welding on the job there after. I think I will opt for the 75% Argon/ 25% CO2. For this gas seems like it would be a great all purpose gas for mild steel, balancing penetration with smooth and clean welding characteristics. If I need to weld occasionally thicker stock I will simply just need to bevel my material, and use multiple stringer beads

              Thanks All !
              Last edited by Repairtech4u; 03-06-2018, 01:08 PM.

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              • #8
                All CV machines act like that. "Constant" is a relative terms used.
                Ed Conley
                Screaming Broccoli, Inc
                http://www.screamingbroccoli.net/
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                Miller Passport Plus, Spoolmate 100
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                "Hold my beer while I try this!"

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                • #9
                  To achieve true spray transfer, you need a shielding gas with a minimum of 80% argon concentration. 80/20 argon/co2 will work, as will 90/10.
                  You won't get into true spray transfer with 75/25 gas.
                  Last edited by snoeproe; 03-07-2018, 12:25 PM.
                  Lincoln Idealarc 250
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by snoeproe View Post
                    To achieve true spray transfer, you need a shielding gas with a minimum of 80% argon concentration. 80/20 argon/co2 will work, as will 90/10.
                    You won't get into true spray transfer with 75/25 gas.
                    You also need the machine that can do it. The HH190 probably won't with any gas. Gases with a small amount of O2 give you the best chance of it with borderline machines.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dan View Post
                      No the Handler 190 isn't capable of producing spray transfer. The reason being because it can't out put the necessary voltage needed. The unit was designed around running solid wire with C25 shielding gas in short circuit transfer mode. And performance wise it does this quite well.

                      The only current Hobart unit that is capable of producing spray transfer with an .030 or 035 solid wire is the Ironman 230. I currently run 90/10 CO2 on my Ironman 230 for spray. I've also used 98/2oxy in the past when I field test the 230.
                      Dan, as you know I've done some pretty heavy steel with spray, but I wonder have you ever tried to see how thin a materiel that you could do a spray on? The goal would be speed, of course, in a production setting. I have seen some pretty thin stuff coming out of China that looked like spray. I still have my 125EZ and it is my first go-to welder.
                      Arcin' and sparkin', Rocky D <><
                      Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
                      IF YOU CAN READ THIS, THANK A TEACHER...
                      IF YOU'RE READING THIS IN ENGLISH, THANK A SOLDIER!

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                      • #12
                        Hello, I do find this a very interesting subject. For there really is much much more to welding than many realize, “it’s a science.” It’s truelly a field of study that I have great respect for, and to all those that have choosen to make it a career. From the time of a young boy I’ve always been fascinated with welding and had a father that encouraged me in my pursuit.

                        I remember at 12 I had a SolidOx Torch setup, this funny settup used a handheld size bottle of MAP Gas for the fuel and a solid pellet about 1-1/2” dia x 6” that you would ignite like a giant snake and drop into a canister tube that was tied into the fuel-gas, thus supplying oxygen from this burning pellet! I remember lots of smoke and stink and irregular oxygen mix into the flame, lol. It did work for short brazing operations however, and was able to create some cool action figures out of nuts N bolts, with ball-bearings for heads. Peace all ✌️

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rocky D View Post

                          Dan, as you know I've done some pretty heavy steel with spray, but I wonder have you ever tried to see how thin a materiel that you could do a spray on? The goal would be speed, of course, in a production setting. I have seen some pretty thin stuff coming out of China that looked like spray. I still have my 125EZ and it is my first go-to welder.
                          Rocky, this welding that you saw may be one of the many variations CC/CV that have come out of pulsed spray, and also modified short-circuit transfer in modern industry. There are many modifications in types of transfer that go far beyond simple spray that are being used in industry, world-wide.

                          See the Miller video below:

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTiCxszwW4I

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rocky D View Post

                            Dan, as you know I've done some pretty heavy steel with spray, but I wonder have you ever tried to see how thin a materiel that you could do a spray on? The goal would be speed, of course, in a production setting. I have seen some pretty thin stuff coming out of China that looked like spray. I still have my 125EZ and it is my first go-to welder.
                            Rocky, 3/16" is the thinnest material that I've used spray on. Short arc performs well on 1/8" and thinner, so I've never had a need to spray 1/8" or thinner.

                            I am going to have to do a forum search and see if the pictures, are still available, of that extra heavy duty spray arc project that you did, because that was definitely one of the coolest project I've seen posted on this forum. 1 1/2" thick steel is the thickest material I've ever used spray on, and that was only about a three feet long butt weld. I used my ESAB Migmaster 250. I used the factory supplied gun , so I definitely had to pace myself, so that I didn't smoke the gun.

                            I still have the little Handler 125 EZ too. With a quality .030 wire it is still a really good little fluxcore only unit. As good as the little 125 EZ is, it still wasn't as cool of a toy to get to test for Hobart as the Trek 180 was. Anyway, most of my welding is with solid wire, so my Ironman 230 sees way more usage then my 125 EZ
                            MigMaster 250- Smooth arc with a good touch of softness to it. Good weld puddle wetout. Light spatter producer.
                            Ironman 230 - Soft arc with a touch of agressiveness to it. Very good weld puddle wet out. Light spatter producer.


                            PM 180C



                            HH 125 EZ - impressive little fluxcore only unit

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello guys,
                              I would be interested in seeing any pictures of welds on on thick materials or thin using spray transfer if you would like to share. I’ve never welded on job anything thicker than about 1/2” plate steel. I remember one of my favorite welding machines at work, if my memory serves me correctly it was a Miller or Millermatic 450E, and had the capability to do TIG and Stick as well as MIG of course. I remember it having it as having all the bells & whistles. I do remember reading about Pulse Spray Transfer that alternates between globular and spray modes, and does it under less volts and amps than straight Spray. Not sure what Hobart machines employ this mode if any?
                              Have a good day!

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